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Determining factors on sub purchase


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26 replies to this topic

#21 of 27 OFFLINE   Angelo_Petralba

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Posted November 13 2003 - 09:33 AM

Quote:
Also another thing with car audio is that below the transfer point (the point at which SPL is highest from a .707 Qsc enclosure) there is a 12 db/octave boost called cabin gain. Since a sealed box rolls off at 12db/octave and this is usually in the high 40 to low 50 Hz range (same as a lot of cars transfer point) a sealed sub will go lower in a car (a lot go to 10 Hz in car). A great sub for car use is the E12A by elemental designs. It hit 129 db by itself in a small (.68 cuft) enclosure in a vette. It also went to 9Hz flat in car and only costs $300


Thats what a magazine review stated...Reviewed by Tom Nussaine of Mobile Entertainment.


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#22 of 27 OFFLINE   Sean^M

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Posted November 15 2003 - 02:43 AM

an album isn't really car audio material since records don't rare well in a car Posted Image
computer test tones I can accept. CDs I cannot, since again, they are filtered below 20Hz, and most subwoofer amplifiers that are worth anything use a subsonic filter anyway.

eD is an ok company, but not my personal pick, as their representatives are completely clueless. For the money, some of their products are a good value. I do however dispute their claims to beat JL's W7 line, just as I dispute the misleading similar claims of MTX and their 9500 line of drivers.

Regarding Xmax, that's important to any design, as the excursion combined with the cone surface area determine how much air the sub is going to move.

Power handling determines very little to be honest. Power handling is merely a measure of the driver voice coils' ability to dissipate heat. The more power you put to a sub, the more heat the coil(s) will need to handle without melting. More power doesn't always mean a louder speaker.

#23 of 27 OFFLINE   brentl

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Posted November 15 2003 - 05:17 AM

"most subwoofer amplifiers that are worth anything use a subsonic filter anyway." Sounds a little eliteist to mePosted Image

See the other thread(show me your ride) about Kenwood mono amp. One of them has one, does that mean it's worth anything?

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#24 of 27 OFFLINE   Andrew S-

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Posted November 15 2003 - 12:28 PM

Quote:
amplifiers that are worth anything use a subsonic filter anyway.

eD is an ok company, but not my personal pick, as their representatives are completely clueless. For the money, some of their products are a good value. I do however dispute their claims to beat JL's W7 line, just as I dispute the misleading similar claims of MTX and their 9500 line of drivers.

Regarding Xmax, that's important to any design, as the excursion combined with the cone surface area determine how much air the sub is going to move.

Power handling determines very little to be honest. Power handling is merely a measure of the driver voice coils' ability to dissipate heat. The more power you put to a sub, the more heat the coil(s) will need to handle without melting. More power doesn't always mean a louder speaker.


A subsonic isnt needed in most enclosures. For a decent sound quality setup it isnt really needed. It would be nice to have yes but not required by any means.

ED doesn't make claims of being better than the W7 in any way, shape, or form. They simply provided a high quality protect for a low price. A lot of their customers feel that their A series driver is in the same league as the W7. Not better than the W7, just in the same small handful of super subs. Throw in the fact that you can get a 12A for $300 and I believe its a much batter value than the W7. Not to mention that Mobile Entertainment tested the 12A and found out that it was at home in a .68 cube sealed enclosure and played nearly flat down to 9hz! MTX walked a very dangerous line on saying that their 9500 series was better than the W7. I think the fell on their faces with it as well. Sure there 10" sub looks a little better on paper than the 10" W7 but the 12W7 and 13W7 make the MTX look foolish. What are you speaking of when you say their representatives are clueless?

Xmax is important but not so much im a ported enclosure. For the most part the cone and port split the duties of moving air. Around tuning the port takes a lot of this responsibility. The BL curve is very important throughout xmax as well. Take the RE XXX or the Adire Brahma with their XBL^2 motors. These motors give a flat BL throughout the drivers Xmax. This IMO makes them superior to most(including the ED A) for most applications. ED makes drivers for very small ported and sealed enclosures. Minus their O series. They have great low end and awesome sound quality. Their only downside is their efficiency. Too bad they can't have everything.

Power handling not only indicates how much power a driver can take thermally but mechanicly as well. Many drivers have a VC that can take the power but their suspension and overall design can limit them to a lesser power. Luckily this can be worked through via enclosure design.

#25 of 27 OFFLINE   Scott L

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Posted November 15 2003 - 01:04 PM

Yea whoever said ED is better than a W7?? Certainly not ED, I have yet to see one ad from them.

Just fyi, an EDa comes with a 3 year warranty. A W7 is 2 year AND it has to be installed by a dealer or they "approve" your installation. (source)

#26 of 27 OFFLINE   Sean^M

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Posted November 17 2003 - 05:27 AM

Saying that most if not all good amps have a subsonic filter, does not, conversely mean that any amp with a subsonic filter is a good amp.
That was an illogical argument, and Kenwood is still crap.
Their reliability is lousy, and has been for at least the past decade or longer.

As for eD, the W7 comparison was from one of their reps, who I will once again point out, can't find his ass with both hands. He was completely unable to back up any of his claims regarding things like driver sensitivity or efficiency.

The excursion of the sub will always determine how much air it can move, regardless of the enclosure type. The farther the cone travels, the more air it'll move, be it in front or behind the cone, and thus through the port or not.

As for power handling, It's still only a singular factor in a much more complex calculation, and alone, is meaningless. I ran a pair of twelves with 160 watts RMS each and I'd hit over 150dB in every IASCA Pro event I entered using an Orion 280GX with a pair of Cerwin Vega LE-12D subs in a vented enclosure I designed. I've seen people who couldn't hit that with two twelves in a different car, box, and driver make, using nearly ten times that amount of power.
My point is that no single spec on a speaker will automatically make it superior to another speaker.

#27 of 27 OFFLINE   Sean^M

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Posted November 17 2003 - 05:30 AM

by the way regarding JL and eD, they have polar opposite views on sales as well.
eD only sells through their website from everything I've been able to find. Not something I see in local shops.
JL *only* sells through brick and mortar shops, and they do not authorize any online sales, much like a number of other higher end audiophile grade companies.
I'm not saying either approach makes a company better.. just difficult to compare a warranty and a requirement for professional installation based on that difference.
Look at car alarm companies. None of them will warranty their products if not installed by an authorized professional. Most won't even supply wiring color codes for the alarm harnesses to the end users.





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