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HTF REVIEW: HALLOWEEN - 25th ANNIVERSARY



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#41 of 63 OFFLINE   Simon_Lepine

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Posted October 30 2003 - 02:06 AM

Quote:
I'm sure if he saw the new DVD, he would say it looked great. Who knows. Maybe in Carpenter's mind, there is no definate look for every shot in Halloween, as it would be hard to remember such details. You really would have to show Carpenter and Cundey both transfers and then let them discuss it. It's a difficult situation.


You're right Gordon, it's probably impossible to have a 100% definitive version. I agree the person who knows the shots the best has to be Cundey. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Maybe those oscar nominations got to Cundey and he wants to be more artistic than he was 25 years ago?
It would just be nice to have a JC approval on one of the version, but knowing his character, he probably doesn't even care that much.

In any case, I'm just glad that one of my favorite movie generates so much discussion Posted Image

#42 of 63 ONLINE   Randy Korstick

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Posted October 30 2003 - 02:41 AM

Gordon
What you are saying sounds nice until you figure in that the Criterion Laserdisc and all earlier VHS releases of the film had the same "enhanced" blue hues that the 99 transfer does. So that would show that the blue hues were always there and they were muted and washed out in the new 2003 transfer. The new version was altered not the 99 version. It was just restored.
...When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth

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#43 of 63 OFFLINE   Dave Anderson

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Posted October 30 2003 - 02:45 AM

Agreed. There is no definitive version. I myself own the 1999 DVD, the 2003 DVD, and the Criterion LD (for the extras that didn't hit DVD, like the Siskel and Ebert review).

Unfortunately this happens a lot. I own Criterion's The Game LD, Image's The Game DTS LD, and I want to get the Japanese DVD (for the 16x9 transfer).

Such is life for movie lovers. Posted Image
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#44 of 63 OFFLINE   Simon_Lepine

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Posted October 30 2003 - 03:08 AM

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What you are saying sounds nice until you figure in that the Criterion Laserdisc and all earlier VHS releases of the film had the same "enhanced" blue hues that the 99 transfer does.


While the blue hues were more prevalent on the Laserdic and VHS, they were clearly not as pronouced as the 99 version, I'm not sure how you can make that statement:

http://www.horrordvd..../compare.shtml

#45 of 63 ONLINE   Randy Korstick

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Posted October 30 2003 - 03:24 AM

Simon
DVD allows for brighter and sharper colors than Laserdisc and VHS. So what I meant is that the blues were there and the 99 DVD brought them out stronger and the 2003 DVD removed them. I have all the versions to compare on my setup. Although I returned the 2003 version. I would choose the Laserdisc over this mess. It makes the movie look like a made for TV remake of the original.
...When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth

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#46 of 63 OFFLINE   Reagan

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Posted October 30 2003 - 03:27 AM

OK people, I went to the John Carpenter talk last night. He had some interesting points on censorship, which were mostly related to censorship of grade school textbooks and aptitude/achievement tests. Only a few comments about film censorship. I can't say that I agreed with everything he said, and I'm sure that a few of them were factually wrong, but that happens. Wait, I just realized that you don't care about this and I'm just jerking you around.

I did have the good fortune to meet him before his speech. As I walked up to the building, he was outside talking to a small group of fans, signing autographs, respectfully answering questions (many of them the same questions he has answered in hundreds of interviews). I pulled out my copy of the new Halloween release, which he was nice enough to sign for me, and asked him about the color issues in the new version.

He said he had heard about the color issues (probably because someone on the forum contacted his assistant), but had not seen the new release. Nor will he be seeing it, because, he "can't stand to watch it [Halloween] anymore." So that's that.

So, in my book the final word on color is the 1999 Cundy transfer (btw, I agree with most of Gordon McMurphy's theory). As much as I like having 100% correct color in all my DVDs, the increase in detail in the 2003 release is just too much for me to resist. But that's just me.

We all have a choice here. Perfect color or top-notch detail. We can't have it both ways at this point. No point in denigrating someone else's choice just because it's different from your own.

-Reagan
The truth doesn't care whether you believe it.

#47 of 63 ONLINE   Randy Korstick

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Posted October 30 2003 - 03:52 AM

The 99 transfer was remarkably detailed. I don't see why defenders of the 03 version keep saying its not. Its grainier yes but this is a low budget film and thats the way it should look. Removing all the grain in the new version gives it a digital, artificial, non film like look. That seems to be the issue here for the supporters not the color or original look but that the new disc is more demo like with its pretty picture. Its the same issue as pan and scan and remixing mono to 5.1. Original intent versus home theater demo quality.
...When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth

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#48 of 63 OFFLINE   Steve Spin

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Posted October 30 2003 - 04:07 AM

There's one thing that we are all forgetting...
We have a choice!
So many releases out there don't give you any option.
I own both. I also own the Criterion Laserdisc.
Out of all of them, my personal favorite is the Laserdisc.
It may not be the right choice for everybody but I think the laser has a "warmer" feel to it. However when people come over to watch this film I would probably put on the 25th Anniversary disc. I feel the average person just wants the cleanest and not the most accurate version of the film. I own a video store and I cant tell you how many more times the new Psycho goes out more than the original! Now that’s a sin! I know not everybody has the money to re-buy every movie that gets a re-release on DVD. (I have 5 versions of 2001:A Space Odyssey on laserdisc just to have every version...they are all different!)I suggest rent them both...make a decision...and buy the one YOU like better. It is also easier now to unload older DVD's, whether its on E-bay or you local Video Store.
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#49 of 63 OFFLINE   Damin J Toell

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Posted October 30 2003 - 04:25 AM

Quote:
I think the color on the '99 transfer is awesome, but the 2003 transfer is by no means, 'wrong' in my opinion, it's just a purer, unenhanced presentation of the film.


If what you describe was the case, that would, in fact, probably make the 2003 transfer wrong. An "unenhanced" transfer of a film with incorrect day-for-night shots, for example, would be wrong. Likewise, the "unenhanced" night shots in Halloween may also be completely wrong. Simply giving us what's on the negative isn't always a very good idea. Such "unenhanced" transfers often give us wrong results like The Howling, as you mention, which has been nearly devoid of its original nighttime blueness in most transfers other than the SE LD (e.g., compare Dave Anderson's screencaps from the SE LD, the first MGM DVD, and the MGM SE DVD, especially shots #5 and #8). Just as The Howling requires tweaking to its nighttime shots to give us the correct original look (along with numerous films with day-for-night shots), so too may Halloween.

Quote:
It would have been great if Cundey or Adams or Carpenter could have supervised the 2003 transfer, but it didn't happen, for whatever reasons. But then how many transfered are supervised by the director and/or cinematographer?

According to Bill Lustig, at least, AB could've very easily recreated the approved color timing of the 1999 disc when they did the 2003 transfer. Cundey was likely busy with the Looney Tunes film at the time, but surely referring back to the approved color scheme from 4 years ago would've been a better choice than completely ignoring it for no particular reason.

DJ

#50 of 63 OFFLINE   Felix Martinez

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Posted October 30 2003 - 04:31 AM

Quote:
Can we just change the color tint on the TV to have the blue back on?

- Adam Adams with Dean Cundey's assistance, boosted the blue hues and added blue hues to plain white lighting


Cundey and Adams' work in the color timing of the '99 release was pretty extensive. A simple TV setting tweak by the user at home will not work. Greens are affected, yellows, blues, and tweaks vary from scene to scene and in different degrees. For an example of how extensive this work is, check out the color correction demo on New Line's excellent Se7en special edition DVD. It's a fantastic look into what is done, and how the original photographic element does not *in any way* determine the look of the final product.

Quote:
(Carpenter) said he had heard about the color issues (probably because someone on the forum contacted his assistant), but had not seen the new release. Nor will he be seeing it, because, he "can't stand to watch it [Halloween] anymore." So that's that.


Yes, his wife Sandy kindly responded to me that he had nothing to do with it (the new DVD release's transfer). His reaction about the new release is not surprising. As far as I'm concerned, the DP is responsible for the look of the film. Carpenter had all faith in Cundey for pretty much every film they did together thru the 1970s and 1980s and so should we.

IMHO, the '99 DVD is the way Halloween should look, and the new release is a sharper, more detailed alternative (with great features).

Cheers,

#51 of 63 OFFLINE   Matt_H

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Posted October 30 2003 - 04:46 AM

well i have the super old 97 dvd of halloween. i was hoping to upgrade but after this whole debacle i think i'll wait for the inevitable 30th anniversary version.

#52 of 63 OFFLINE   Vincent_P

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Posted October 30 2003 - 06:50 AM

Anchor Bay could have taken the new D5 1080P transfer with the incorrect color timings and then done a tape-to-tape color correction in the digital domain to recreate the color timings of the 1999 release. HDTV-to-HDTV tape-to-tape color timing can do wonders, hell look what Robert Harris was able to do using an existing HDTV transfer of LAWRENCE OF ARABIA. That way, you'd have the best of both worlds- the greater detail of the new transfer, with the correct colors.

At the very least, I hope Anchor Bay does such a tape-to-tape color timing with their D5 master tape before they release the inevitable HD version of HALLOWEEN.

Vincent

#53 of 63 OFFLINE   RyanPC

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Posted November 04 2003 - 09:03 AM

Although it bugs me that in this new release the colors don't make the film look like it takes place in the fall season, I can get over it. I suppose this is the way the film looked in theaters, and since the quality is better than the past release, I really can't complain and am glad to own it. Posted Image

#54 of 63 OFFLINE   Malcolm R

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Posted November 04 2003 - 09:23 AM

Even if you fix the "fall colors," there's still the "daylight" issue. Laurie's friend picks her up to go babysitting at 6:30, yet it's still daylight. On Halloween, it would be dark at 6:30 (DST always ends before Halloween night).

I watched it Halloween night and thought it looked spectacular. Still creepy as hell, too. Posted Image
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#55 of 63 OFFLINE   Lyle_JP

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Posted November 04 2003 - 09:57 AM

Quote:
Even if you fix the "fall colors," there's still the "daylight" issue. Laurie's friend picks her up to go babysitting at 6:30, yet it's still daylight. On Halloween, it would be dark at 6:30 (DST always ends before Halloween night).


True, but the older THX disc is no better in this regard. It looks like daylight, too.

-Lyle J.P.

#56 of 63 OFFLINE   David Von Pein

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Posted November 04 2003 - 10:03 AM

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Laurie's friend picks her up to go babysitting at 6:30, yet it's still daylight.
Yes...and somehow, in just those very few minutes between Laurie's house and her friend's, it's become pitch dark. Posted Image (Always considered this a bit of a "blooper"/gaffe. Or maybe this little 'burgh of Haddonfield, Illinois, is bigger than we think...with a trip cross-town taking hours and hours to complete. Posted Image)

#57 of 63 OFFLINE   Dave H

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Posted November 04 2003 - 03:01 PM

I have a few questions about the Extended Version of Halloween on DVD:

1. Is it still in print?
2. Does the extra footage improve the movie?
3. Is the video quality better than the regular version since there is only one version of the film and no extras on disc? I would think there would be some kind of improvement.

Thanks.

#58 of 63 OFFLINE   Gordon McMurphy

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Posted November 05 2003 - 12:54 AM

"Manifold and multiform are the horrors that infest the visible ways and the ways unseen. They sleep beneath the unturned stone; they rise with the tree from its root; they move beneath the sea and in subterranean places; they dwell unchallenged in the inmost adyta; they emerge betimes from the shutten sepulcher of haughty bronze and the low grave that is sealed with earth. There be some that are long known to man, and others as yet unknown that abide the terrible future days of their revealing. Those which are the most dreadful and the loathliest of all, are haply still to be declared. But among those that have revealed themselves aforetime and have made manifest their veritable presence, there is one which may not openly be named for its exceeding foulness. It is that spawn which the hidden dweller in the vaults has begotten upon mortality".

- Clark Ashton Smith, The Necronomicon

Great stuff!


Gordy


#59 of 63 OFFLINE   EdwardKarlinski

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Posted November 06 2003 - 10:45 PM

Quote:
2. Does the extra footage improve the movie?


No, in my opinion, the extra footage is just filler and actually slows the pace of the film.

#60 of 63 OFFLINE   Vincent_P

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Posted November 07 2003 - 06:37 AM

Even John Carpenter doesn't like the extra footage- in fact, they aren't even true DELETED SCENES. They were shot two-three years later during the making of HALLOWEEN II because they needed to pad-out HALLOWEEN's running time for network TV. After the network censors got through with HALLOWEEN, the film was too short to fit in a 2-hour time slot with commercials, so they needed to fill out the running time. Carpenter complied and quickly wrote and shot the new scenes while everybody was gathered for the making of HALLOWEEN II, and also used them to try and tie Michael's motivation in HALLOWEEN with what they were doing in HALLOWEEN II (i.e., making Laurie Strode Michael's sister).

Vincent


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