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Substituting Music on TV Boxsets?


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35 replies to this topic

#1 of 36 OFFLINE   AdrianS

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Posted October 19 2003 - 05:23 PM

I just read this article over at wired.com, and it's a bit disconcerting. I personally don't own Felicity or Dawson's Creek, and the boxsets I have purchased fortunately have the original music intact.

But based on the fact that Disney's (why is it always disney?) is going to release season 2 boxsets of those shows with completely substituted music, seems to indicate a growing trend.

Now I myself will NOT buy a boxset that doesn't contain the original music, but it goes without saying that the studios are not going to be labelling this on the box (smallprint or otherwise), which begs the question; Should studios be required to label changes on the box?

I'd much rather they just sit on the show till they can; cuz I know I won't be buying it. And because its obviously a RIAA cashgrab caused by online music, but that will pass in a few years. But just to get a concensus, would anyone else here buy a Tv Boxset that has substituted music?

#2 of 36 OFFLINE   Dan Rudolph

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Posted October 19 2003 - 06:37 PM

What show are you talking about? Dawson's Creek is a Columbia product. It's just Felicity that's Disney. Sitting on the show untilt hey can would be until the copyrights ran out in many cases. Or at least until DVD was gone. If the prices on the music drop, they'll release intact on HD-DVD.
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#3 of 36 OFFLINE   Joshua_W

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Posted October 19 2003 - 08:48 PM

AdrianS, I think you have seriously misjudged how stubborn the recording industry is.

It's not a matter of just waiting a couple of years until they relent. They aren't going to give in, and they don't care whether the shows are released onto DVD or not. They're just sitting there with their hands out, and don't care that the studios have the leverage of substituting different musical tracks. I'm convinced that the RIAA is governed by arrogance and control, more than they are by greed.

#4 of 36 OFFLINE   Glenn Overholt

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Posted October 20 2003 - 05:14 AM

Interesting shows that you mentioned.

I saw Felicity first run, and have two of the 4 seasons. I had no idea that they were going to pull that crap when I got season 1. Even worse, the first (pilot) episode does have the original music on it, so when you play that it seems ok, at first.

Even if it is just a TV show, their deception was well done. You need a magnifying glass to read it on the back.

I didn't see very many of Dawson, but I thought that they advertised groups at the end of the shows that weren't big name. (Ok, they were't to me). Did the show make the group big?

But both of these started years ago now, and I do hope that all the shows that are out now have contracts that permit DVD's with the original music. If they don't, I could see me writing them and saying that I'm switching to another channel. This needs to be done to their advertisers as well.


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#5 of 36 OFFLINE   Casey Trowbridg

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Posted October 20 2003 - 05:40 AM

Sadly, the issue of music rights fees is keeping 1 of my favorite shows off of DVD (WKRP in Cincinnati) which in certain cases used contemporary music of the time to help further a joke, so it would be harder to replace the track. Although, some of the music had been replaced for the run on nick at nite a few years back from what I've heard.

#6 of 36 OFFLINE   WillG

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Posted October 20 2003 - 06:54 AM

As much as replacing original music sucks, I know that some tv shows may Never, Ever get released unless music is changed. I know some music is related to the story of the episode, but I would rather see shows being released than being relegated to music clearance hell, so it something that we may just have to live with. It's just a thing where you have to choose your battles
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#7 of 36 OFFLINE   John Berggren

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Posted October 20 2003 - 07:13 AM

I think it sucks as a practice, but faced with the question of replacing music or not releasing at all, I think the better decision is to replace the music - much as I might not buy it myself.

I'm happy that more current shows license their music to include eventual DVD release (Alias, etc).

Based on Warner Brother's assertion that they'll try to get every series out on DVD prior to it's next season, I suspect we can plan on complete music parity on those releases.
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#8 of 36 OFFLINE   WillG

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Posted October 20 2003 - 07:20 AM

Nowadays, music rights for home video release would be written into the initial contracts
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#9 of 36 OFFLINE   David Lambert

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Posted October 20 2003 - 02:00 PM

Here is a Reuters news story on the subject being discussed. Gord is heavily quoted in this article!

Adrian, is this the article you were referring to, or is there a different one on the same subject?
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#10 of 36 OFFLINE   Kyle McKnight

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Posted October 20 2003 - 02:17 PM

At the least, if any music has been changed, cuts or extensions made to eps, something along the lines of "modified from its original version" should have to be included on the packaging.
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#11 of 36 OFFLINE   Joshua_W

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Posted October 21 2003 - 11:52 AM

Just out of curiosity, is there a list of the original songs for shows like "Felicity" and "Dawson's Creek?"

#12 of 36 OFFLINE   Greg Madsen

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Posted October 21 2003 - 12:16 PM

Quote:
Just out of curiosity, is there a list of the original songs for shows like "Felicity" and "Dawson's Creek?"


There are sites for each but it won't let me post them.

#13 of 36 OFFLINE   Nicodemus

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Posted October 21 2003 - 06:18 PM

I believe they did the same with Wiseguy dvd release. If I've understood correctly, they changed the original music from the storyline where Vinnie goes undercover in music business.

#14 of 36 OFFLINE   David Lambert

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Posted October 22 2003 - 02:46 AM

The major item noted with Wiseguy music changes is the scene at the end of the first arc, where good guy and bad guy battle it out to the tune of "Knights In White Satin". For some reason it wasn't able to be licensed for the DVD (I heard that the Moody Blues wouldn't sell it). So the fight is sans music, and fans say it's just not the same.


By-the-way, here is a slightly longer version of that article Gord was quoted in. The additional text gives just a bit more insight into the situation.
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#15 of 36 OFFLINE   Bill Williams

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Posted October 22 2003 - 02:56 AM

When Paramount Home Video released the 2-disc set of The Real World: New York - The Complete First Season, they completely replaced the entire rock music track with a non-descript instrumental score into every episode, because of serious music clearance rights. For that matter, they didn't have all of the episodes original and uncut as shown on MTV, they lopped off the end credits from every episode and the main title credits from most of the episodes.

Now the Smallville - The Complete First Season set I picked up for my birthday, and I've been going through that, and all the music there is intact from its original TV broadcast, because the music on the episodes is owned by the WB.
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#16 of 36 OFFLINE   Glenn Overholt

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Posted October 22 2003 - 05:31 AM

Ugh! Yeah, that story explained it much better. It sounded to me like they paid extra for the Smallville release on DVD up front, not that it was included in the contract.

I still think that they have this all backwards. The studios should send bills to each group, informing them that if they don't pay up, not only will they remove their song from the show and remove it from the credits but add in the credits, that this group did not want their music to be included.

You need to consider that the song is an advertisement for the group in order for that to work - like a can of Coke. If the person watching it likes the song, they might go out and buy a CD or two. That's free publicity for the group.

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#17 of 36 OFFLINE   Anthony Hom

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Posted October 22 2003 - 05:43 AM

Looking at re-runs of WKRP and they already started substituting music. Seeing That 70's show on syndication also shows music substitution, too.

#18 of 36 OFFLINE   todd s

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Posted October 22 2003 - 07:16 AM

In the article it mentions that 2 series by Warner are being held back for music clearances. I wonder what they are?? Any guesses?
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#19 of 36 OFFLINE   Dan Rudolph

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Posted October 22 2003 - 08:26 AM

I'm guessing Charmed is one. That show used lots of music from non-Warner bands. As in every show opens with a shot a San Fransisco with popular music over it. Plus a few live performances once Piper opens her club.
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#20 of 36 OFFLINE   John Berggren

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Posted October 22 2003 - 08:33 AM

Quote:
Plus a few live performances once Piper opens her club.


The live performances will almost certainly be intact since the artists receive an appearance fee.

You'd think that bands would appreciate the added exposure and charge a more reasonable fee. Or at least they might note the trend and realize that if their fee is extortionate, the studio will just replace them.
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