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Sony Cineza VPL-HS10 (anyone seen it?)


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#1 of 23 OFFLINE   David Lovekamp

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Posted October 06 2003 - 01:47 PM

Well, I've been patient, researched rear and front projection TVs and have decided to build a home theater the right way - with FP. Now I gotta decide on a player. I want a projector capable of true HD and have read a review on one that intrigues me - the Sony Cineza VPL-HS10. Its an LCD player which concerns me. I've heard of the "screen door" effect and I have seen it first hand with the Hitachi Ultravision RP LCD. Its not bad, mind you - but you can see it up close. Now I'm planning on projecting this image on a 90-110 inch screen, which is quite a bit different than the 50 RP I was looking at. Perfect Vision says screendoor is viewable from 10 feet away on an 80 inch screen. Another concern I had is black level and contrast. I love sports and will be watching alot of basketball and baseball on it but I also am a big fan of movies such as LOTR and the Matrix series. Those movies you need a projector able to accurately reproduce blacks to enjoy the full effect. I've seen the Cineza for under $2500 on the web, but I've also noticed some nice HD2 DLP front projectors that are hovering just below $5000 if you look hard enough. The InFocus 7200 being one of those. If money wasn't a big object I would of course go after the InFocus because it obviously is the better projector and has no screendoor issues but if the Cineza is close enough in picture quality to not really make a big difference that extra $2500 could go into the rest of my system (sound, room additions). I would love feedback from anyone who either owns, or has seen these projectors in action!Posted Image

#2 of 23 OFFLINE   Lawrence X

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Posted October 06 2003 - 03:26 PM

David - I've owned the HS10 for about a year and still love it every time I fire it up. If you're considering a more expensive PJ though, wait for the HS20 to be released. Its got much improved contrast, connectivity etc that some at Cedia say gets it 90% of the way to the 10K plus DLP projectors.

HS10's are going for right around 2K these days. The one thing about the HS10 is that it really responds to tweaking, not giving its best out of the box. Black level is greatly improved using a CC40R filter, and changing the RGB values. Sure tweaking is a pain, but if you follow the directions some have posted at AVS, its pretty painless and quick. An amazing projector for the price that's about to be updated into a signicantly more amazing projector.

#3 of 23 OFFLINE   David Lovekamp

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Posted October 06 2003 - 05:14 PM

Thanx for the reply Lawrence. When does that projector get released and how much will it cost? Are there any reviews on it yet? As to your projector, do you have any screendoor effect problems when viewing it? Thanx again man. Anyone else?Posted Image

#4 of 23 OFFLINE   Neil Joseph

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Posted October 07 2003 - 04:16 AM

The HS20 is around $3K. Neither the HS10 or the HS20 will have problems with screendoor from 10+ feet away. The HS20 also has micro lens array (MLA) that even further reduces the possibility of screendoor effect. The fact that they have tonnes of pixels, 1366x768, does not hurt either. Posted Image
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#5 of 23 OFFLINE   Lawrence X

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Posted October 07 2003 - 08:01 AM

David, as Neil says screendoor on the HS10 is not an issue at all. In fact since I've gotten my DVI DVD player, I enjoy watching movies on a 9 foot screen from 8 feet away. (DVI player also got rid of other artifacts).

The only reviews so far I've seen on the HS20 were from some at AVS that saw one set up at Cedia. The few people that saw it there were blown away and couldn't believe it was an LCD machine. One of the guys that already owns the high end Marantz DLP was very impressed and said he'll be ordering one.

One of its key features is an adjustable Iris that lets you dial in better contrast with more light control, and more light output for sporting events etc. Looks like it will be quite the killer in the mid-range projector market.

#6 of 23 OFFLINE   David Lovekamp

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Posted October 07 2003 - 03:43 PM

Thanx Neil and Lawrence! It appears that I will wait for the HS20 and get that one. Its contrast ratio is far improved over the HS10 and has even better light output. Damn, it feels good to have finally come to a decision!!! I can't wait!Posted Image

PS My next consideration is a screen. I want the Stewart Firehawk grey but have seen others on here build their own. Do they project as good an image as the Stewart? How do you build it and what paints/materials are needed? I can't tell you how much help this forum is to a newbie who wants to do it right instead of just listen to the sales pitches given by people at electronic stores. Thanx again!

#7 of 23 OFFLINE   Neil Joseph

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Posted October 07 2003 - 03:48 PM

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DIY screens? Many here have made them. FYI, the Firehawk is a silver/gray and one of the best screens you can buy. Originally I wa going to get one of their 100" screens and I decided to make my own.
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#8 of 23 OFFLINE   Lawrence X

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Posted October 08 2003 - 02:42 AM

Firehawk's are very good but expensive. For a fixed screen, the Da-Lite Cinemavision is much less expensive but similar to the firehawk for brightness and contrast. Since the HS20 will have such manageable black levels though, probably the best screen would be the Da-lite High Power, which will give the picture a plasma like brightness and color intensity.

I think lots of people will happily go with the HS20 - HiPower combo. That's what I would do (if I could afford to upgrade so soon). And you can get a 106" length Hi Power pulldown for $380 last I checked.

#9 of 23 OFFLINE   David Lovekamp

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Posted October 09 2003 - 05:10 PM

Well, I thought I had my mind made up on the HS20. Then I browse over at the AVS forum and read a 300+ post thread about the Sanyo PLV-Z2. This projector looks awesome and is available for just under $2000. I haven't found any prices on the HS20 yet under $3000. The contrast ratios on both are outstanding for LCD but the HS20 has the Z2 beat in one critical area - brightness. The HS20 will pump out 1400 Lumens whereas the Z2 will do 800. Thats a significant difference. So is the price tho - about a grand. Will the Z2 be able to handle a moderately lit room or will the 800 Lumens not be enough? Both models will have to be pre-ordered but I'm wondering if the price of the HS20 will be lower on market once its released. Decisions, decisions!Posted Image

#10 of 23 OFFLINE   DanFe

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Posted October 09 2003 - 05:19 PM

Do put the Panosonic AE500 into your thinking. Over at projectorcentral.com the AE300 is one of the top projectors in many people's minds.

#11 of 23 OFFLINE   David Lovekamp

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Posted October 10 2003 - 07:48 AM

Looked into it. The AE300 has a MSRP of almost $2800. And its not true HD. Can't think that the AE500 will list for any cheaper. I'm sure the street price will be lower than the list price but as of right now the Z2 is looking awful good. My only reservation is the lumens output. Anyone have a projector with 800 lumens here? How does it look with ambient light? Better yet, has anyone owned multiple projectors with some higher rated than others in lumens output? If so, how did they compare? I can't tell you guys how much help this has been, thanx again!Posted Image

#12 of 23 OFFLINE   ChadLB

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Posted October 10 2003 - 08:29 AM

Look at my projector comparison...the ae300 can be found cheaper than that price. The new Z2 and Panny 500 are going to be great machines for the price.

#13 of 23 OFFLINE   DanFe

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Posted October 10 2003 - 11:20 AM

The AE500 is going for about $1800 at pricejapan.com It won't be that much more expensive here. And where did you get the idea that it wasn't true HD? No more or less than the Z2. The AE500 has a native high definition resolution (1280x720). This is the same as the Z2.

Read the review of the AE300 and the Z1 at projector.com The AE300 has a distinct advantage over the Z1 when it comes to screen door problems and overall viewing pleasure.

#14 of 23 OFFLINE   David Lovekamp

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Posted October 10 2003 - 04:35 PM

Hi Dan, no I meant the 300 wasn't HD. If the 500 is going to indeed be in that price range that will definately be on my list. I can't wait till these models are released so some detailed reviews can be done on them!

#15 of 23 OFFLINE   DanFe

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Posted October 10 2003 - 05:13 PM

Just to get an idea, David, look at pricejapan.com where they have the Panasonic and the Z2. Actually, the Z2 is a bit more expensive. I'd imagine they'll both be in the same vicinity. The HS20, on the other hand, will be $1000 more.

#16 of 23 OFFLINE   Lawrence X

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Posted October 11 2003 - 02:29 AM

All 3 of these are exciting developments. The Sanyo's have typically, even in their expensive PJ's, had dust problems along with other manufacturing issues. The AE500 will have a lamp modulation scheme which wasn't said to work very well in the prototype at CEDIA.

We'll just have to wait until they start shipping and the reviews start rolling in to be sure. If you were to purchase before the reviews, for me the HS20 would be the safest bet.

#17 of 23 OFFLINE   DanFe

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Posted October 11 2003 - 03:22 AM

I'm giving it a couple of months before I decide on which one. By then, some reviews will be in.

#18 of 23 OFFLINE   David Lovekamp

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Posted October 11 2003 - 07:29 AM

Good call Dan, me too. If the next issue of Perfect Vision or Home Theater mag doesn't have a review on one of these I'll be pretty upset! LOL

#19 of 23 OFFLINE   Lawrence X

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Posted October 11 2003 - 05:11 PM

You'll see reviews on AVS or projector central long before they show up in any of the magazines. Projector Central I actually trust less than amateur/user reviews on AVS. They should start showing up in 30-60 days.

#20 of 23 OFFLINE   DanFe

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Posted October 11 2003 - 08:14 PM

I'm mostly interested in any bugs (like the lamp bug of the Sony HS10 and if it shows on the HS20) etc as well as screen door effect and other things such as that.