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taxes solve all problems, even underage drinking!


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38 replies to this topic

#1 of 39 OFFLINE   Eric_L

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Posted September 10 2003 - 09:51 AM

http://story.news.ya...._drinking_dc_3

Using that same logic is it safe to assume that taxing prostitution would make that problem go away too?

I for one am tired of hearing about the evils of underage drinking. I drank underage and most people here I assume did too - most with positive results. I want my kids to drink uderage as well. Twentyone is a ridiculous age to get a right. My kids had better learn to handle their alcohol BEFORE they move from home.

The reason why there are binge drinking episodes in college, the reason why teenagers have alcohol related accidents is NOT underage drinking - but in fact caused BY the drinking age.

Think critically for a moment: (for most here that is easy) When a person suddenly gets a new right they are going to excersise it. ALOT. Think about when you got your latest HT item. You watched more movies for a while, no? Same for the right to drink. Unfortunately, inexperienced people will overdo it - ie binge drink regularly and make other poor decisions due to inexperience.

Underaged drinkers cannot go to a bar, so their other option is in their car or unregulated 'party' spots. Again, they are not experienced and tend to binge.

Now - imagine there were NO drinking age limit. No sudden aquisition of a new right. No need to go to unregulated establishments. No need to 'bing'. People could be experienced drinkers BEFORE they ever get behind the wheel of a car! Fewer drunk driving incidents. Fewer poor decisions. Less need to 'experement'. Best of all - learning how to handle alcohol under their parents supervision - which is the REAL answer to most problems.

It makes sense....

#2 of 39 OFFLINE   Jared_B

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Posted September 10 2003 - 12:06 PM

I agree 100%, Eric.

#3 of 39 OFFLINE   Eric_L

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Posted September 10 2003 - 12:32 PM

Something else about the article I forgot to mention:

Isn't it ironic that a commission retained by the government discovers the solution to be more taxes?

That'd be like a commission hired by McDonalds to look into obesity recommending more Shamrock Shakes.

#4 of 39 OFFLINE   James Edward

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Posted September 10 2003 - 01:15 PM

I did my finest drinking between the ages of 17 and 22, when the legal age was 18. 21 is ridiculously high IMO.
Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.

#5 of 39 OFFLINE   Blu

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Posted September 10 2003 - 01:15 PM

It isn't even the Federal level that is that killing, it is all the nickle and dime stuff of everyday living that really adds up.
I just marvel at the phone bill and cable bill with the "fees" and whatnot that is tacked on.

#6 of 39 OFFLINE   Dome Vongvises

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Posted September 10 2003 - 01:22 PM

I say people and the government should do everything in their power to stop underage drinking.
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Of course, I'm only saying that because I want to be the asshole for a change. Posted Image

#7 of 39 OFFLINE   Kirk Gunn

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Posted September 10 2003 - 01:43 PM

This topic is filled with anti-HTF policy.... I'll just add that most under-aged people I have met, drnking with the sanction of their parents, were much more mature than their peers.

Adjusting to life outside of parental restrictions did not result in them binge drinking.

YMMV

#8 of 39 OFFLINE   James Edward

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Posted September 10 2003 - 01:58 PM

This topic is filled with anti-HTF policy


I love amateur moderators. Posted Image
Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.

#9 of 39 OFFLINE   David Giesbrecht

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Posted September 10 2003 - 02:34 PM

This is something that has needed to be said for a long time, I agree 100% with you Eric.

#10 of 39 OFFLINE   BrettB

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Posted September 10 2003 - 03:04 PM

Maturity and the "I'm indestructible" factor of youth are also key factors here. Lowering the drinking age isn't going to fix the problems associated with underage drinking.

#11 of 39 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted September 10 2003 - 03:43 PM

Quote:
This topic is filled with anti-HTF policy....

Potentially, yes. But so far everyone's been good about not going down those paths, so the thread's still going.

It's a truism, but it bears repeating: The best "moderation" is self-control.

M.
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#12 of 39 OFFLINE   Glenn Overholt

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Posted September 10 2003 - 03:59 PM

They raised the taxes on cigarettes to stop kids from smoking. A lot of good that has done. They just pissed off the legal-aged people that could barely afford it.

The dumb part about being 21 to drink is that we can all fight for our country 3 years before that. That's what I don't get.

Glenn

#13 of 39 OFFLINE   Carl Miller

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Posted September 10 2003 - 04:32 PM

I went to college from 1982-1986, and based on what I saw last year when I last visited my alma mater, a lot has changed. We were able to drink openly, whether we were legal age or not. In the dorm rooms, in the lounges, on the quad lawns and in the town bars. People just didn't make such a big deal out of drinking back then.

I think the reason for this however is that there were far fewer cars on the road, and specifically far fewer young people with cars.

There was less reason to worry, and fewer incidents to make examples out of to justify raising the drinking age.

When I was in high school for example, there wasn't a single DWI related student death in the 3 years I was there. Last year alone, at the same school, there were 4. And the year before last, there were 3.

This isn't because alcohol was difficult to get for us back then, it's because very few kids had cars. Alcohol was easy to get, cars weren't.

Personally, I think the cars are the bigger problem. Teach a young person how to handle the responsibility of driving, and you'll teach that same young person not to drink and drive in the process.
Carl

#14 of 39 OFFLINE   Joseph S

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Posted September 10 2003 - 05:42 PM

Quote:
went to college from 1982-1986, and based on what I saw last year when I last visited my alma mater, a lot has changed. We were able to drink openly, whether we were legal age or not. In the dorm rooms, in the lounges, on the quad lawns and in the town bars. People just didn't make such a big deal out of drinking back then.

This is definitely on a school by school basis. My school had and likely still has the if you don't show, then we won't ask and or tell policy.

All alcohol had to be covered on entry to the dorms and no public drinking outside. However, once it was in the dorm rooms used for parties they didn't care if you were 15. Of course, 1/2 the 80,000 stadium was drunk every game but there was no alcohol allowed in the stadium. Posted Image

#15 of 39 OFFLINE   Eric_L

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Posted September 11 2003 - 12:18 AM

Quote:
The best "moderation" is self-control

You could also say 'the best self control is moderation' and it would fit right in with this topic! Posted Image

Quote:
I think the reason for this however is that there were far fewer cars on the road, and specifically far fewer young people with cars


A good point, but I also think parental influence was a consideration as well. Lets not forget though, that the movie American Grafitti included underage drinking+driving set in the 50's.

Quote:
When I was in high school for example, there wasn't a single DWI related student death in the 3 years I was there. Last year alone, at the same school, there were 4. And the year before last, there were 3


I would hazard a guess that a considerable part of the problem there is not the cars, students or alcohol but instead probability. Chances are that there are considerably more students there now. That increases the odds that any will die of a given cause. Ther are probably more truancies, more smokers, more teen pregnancies etc. also since the population is higher.

There will always be irresponsible people. Taxes, laws and policies won't change that. Instead they only punish the majority who are responsible along with the idiots. If there were a law against stupididty the prisons would be overflowing even more and most of us would have been cited at least once in our life - heck in the last week! Limiting freedom is never the answer. Encouraging responsibility is - though it is also much more diffiult.

#16 of 39 OFFLINE   Marc_Sulinski

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Posted September 11 2003 - 01:46 AM

What I don't like about this is that those who drink legally are being punished by paying more for the same product. Taxes are supposed to be used to fund the government, not dictate the behavior of the citizens. I resent the fact that the government thinks it can do this. We already have laws to prohibit underage drinking, so why don't we enforce them better?

#17 of 39 OFFLINE   David Baranyi

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Posted September 11 2003 - 03:30 AM

Everyone, are we wondering into the realm of politics (e.g. taxes)?

#18 of 39 OFFLINE   Chris Bardon

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Posted September 11 2003 - 03:47 AM

Well, I'll tell you that the legal drinking age here (Ontario) is 19, and it's 18 in some provinces (Quebec), and I still think that's too high. By removing the taboo on something, it becomes less attractive for abuse. Look at some of the European countries with no real drinking age-it's really not a big deal to go out for a drink, and abuse is lower. Of course you could also say the same about legalizing drugs like Marajuana, but that's a whole other issue...

Any idea why the legal drinking ages are so high, especially in the states? It just seems silly that you can vote, join the military, get married, and hold a full time job at 18, but you can't drink.
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#19 of 39 OFFLINE   StephenA

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Posted September 11 2003 - 03:49 AM

I never drank before I was 21, but think the age limit thing is stupid. You can vote, get a credit card, buy and star in porn, buy cigarettes and other tobbacco products, join the military, go to war, and die for your country, and do other "adult" things at 18, but can't drink till you're 21. Where's the logic there? Either make it all 18 or all 21, no need to split it up like that.

There's definitely no need to add more taxes to alcohol. Underage people will still find ways of getting booze, whether it's raiding their parents liquor cabinet and fridge, getting legal aged people to buy it for them, stealing it, dtinking at parties, etc. Stuff like this never stopped them before, why should it now? The prohibition didn't even stop people from drinking, and that was a federal ban. Guess they don't learn from the past.

#20 of 39 OFFLINE   Paul_Medenwaldt

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Posted September 11 2003 - 04:06 AM

In high school, almost every weekend was spent finding someone to buy us beer. It was glorious when we found someone to purchase the fine liquid, it was so damn taboo.

But once I turned 21 and could drink legally, something changed. I didn't drink as much as i did before I was 21, I didn't drink to get drunk anymore, it was more casual after turning 21, it was like no big deal to drink anymore.

Maybe having the drinking age at 18 would make more people mature earlier then they would have at 21? It only took me about 2 years after turning 21 to realize that drinking alcohol should be used more for socializing then actually getting rip roaring drunk.

In regards to raising the taxes, in the article i didn't see any info on how much the taxes would be raised. Do they want to add 50 cents to a case of beer or a dollar to Jack Daniels, either of those types of increases would be a waste of time and would not discourage underage drinking.

Paul
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