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What other DLP's compare with the Sharp XV-Z10000U?


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19 replies to this topic

#1 of 20 OFFLINE   Kenneth Harden

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Posted September 07 2003 - 01:33 PM

Same price/quality area. I have seen and like that projector, but in the DLP field (I am trying to compare apples to apples), what else compares to it? Same price, also Posted Image

Also, completly unrelated, is it morally wrong to rob a bank if you REALLY want something?

#2 of 20 OFFLINE   Neil Joseph

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Posted September 08 2003 - 01:12 AM

The easiest way to answer this is to compare it first to the same generation of other HD2 projectors...

- Toshiba MT8
- Infocus 7200
- Marantz VP12S2
- Sim2 HT3200
- Dwin TV3
- Optoma H76
- Yamaha DPX1000
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#3 of 20 OFFLINE   alan halvorson

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Posted September 08 2003 - 03:31 AM

Why don't you just embezzle something? Much less risky and if you do it only once, you might get away with it.

Many years ago, the company I worked for contracted with a local bank to do their data processing. I knew all the files and all the programs. I had the ability to change any number in any account (no one at the bank knew I could do this or the bank examiners would have been down on us). I could have, were I so minded, manipulated accounts and made myself rich without anyone knowing about it because I could have changed any file, report or display to give the correct numbers! A lot of work though. The fact that I am trying to scape enough money together to get a decent front projector attests to the fact that I am either a.) honest or b.) gutless.
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#4 of 20 OFFLINE   David Lorenzo

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Posted September 08 2003 - 04:52 AM

Ken,

You might want to check out the new projectors based on the HD2+ chip. They might be over your budget though. The cheapest I think so far is the InFocus 7205 at around 1K.

#5 of 20 OFFLINE   Michael FF

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Posted September 08 2003 - 01:03 PM

Poor Runco--Is it not interesting that they are never mentioned as even an equal to Sharp? Guess it tells us something about Runco quality.
Michael FF

#6 of 20 OFFLINE   Neil Joseph

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Posted September 08 2003 - 01:29 PM

I would not say that Posted Image But price is also another consideration. The Runco CL710 is most definitely a great pj.
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#7 of 20 OFFLINE   Michael FF

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Posted September 08 2003 - 01:51 PM

In what regard is the CL710 better than the Sharp 10000? T o be specific, I am only interested in sharpness of focus.
Michael FF

#8 of 20 OFFLINE   Kenneth Harden

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Posted September 08 2003 - 02:22 PM

Many years ago, the company I worked for contracted with a local bank to do their data processing. I knew all the files and all the programs. I had the ability to change any number in any account (no one at the bank knew I could do this or the bank examiners would have been down on us). I could have, were I so minded, manipulated accounts and made myself rich without anyone knowing about it because I could have changed any file, report or display to give the correct numbers! A lot of work though. The fact that I am trying to scape enough money together to get a decent front projector attests to the fact that I am either a.) honest or b.) gutless.

I bet Office Space is one of your favorite movies. Posted Image

I think most people will come across a situation like that at work, whether it be the gardener who has a chance to pocket $500 from a big job, or an accountant for Enron...

Anyway, I need to look around town and see who has what. I need to see if the DLP 'strobing' is an issue for me or not.

#9 of 20 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted September 09 2003 - 04:20 AM

Quote:
Poor Runco--Is it not interesting that they are never mentioned as even an equal to Sharp? Guess it tells us something about Runco quality.

Michael,

Never mentioned as an equal to Sharp? You are limiting yourself to a very narrow range of opinions. This all depends on who you listen to. There are a lot of people out there on the Internet who open their mouths without actually comparing these units. True, Runcos are generally more expensive than some of the "mainstream" projectors but to make a blanket statement about the "quality" of Runco products seems to be a little presumptive, unless you are familiar with Runco products. Runco is generally considered one of the premium projector companies out there and their products consistently score extremely high in video tests. Are they the most cost effective solutions out there? Probably not, but neither are Rolls Royces or Bentleys, et. al. Just because you don't see a Rolls being reviewed in Consumers Reports doesn't mean it's not an equal to a Honda. Nor does it say anything about Rolls Royce quality.

I own a Runco CL-710 and am extremely happy with it. It is a high quality product and easily blows away the build quality of the SONY VW10HT it replaced. And the SONY is basically on a par with SHARP in terms of workmanship. True, comparing the LCD SONY to the DLP Runco would be an Apples/Oranges thing, but in my opinion the picture on the Runco DLP is better than that on the Sharp DLP. Another consideration: Runco is a video company and when you call them for support you discuss video. SONY and Sharp (and many others) are so fragmented that it sometimes is a hassle to get good customer support. Comes with diversification, I imagine.

While I won the Runco in a trivia contest it doesn't change the fact that it is well made, has great technical support and a nice warranty. Prior to winning the CL-710 I would never have considered a Runco based on the "rumors" I had heard about them being overpriced, etc. But now that I own one (admittedly at a unbeatable price Posted Image ) I can state with authority that a person considering all options should not dismiss a Runco. The CL-710 is an "under $10K" model and it competes very nicely with other units in that class. Their relatively new CL-510 (Mustang chip) is even approaching the $5K mark - something that was unheard of previously.

At one time I fell into the trap of taking general statements like the one you made at face value and it probably made me overlook some very nice products. I'd like to think that I've moved on from that - especially since there are many ways to get correct information from reliable test sources and users. The Internet allows one to get a large number of divergent views and even to discover places where equipment may be seen in person and evaluated by the only person who counts - yourself.
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#10 of 20 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted September 09 2003 - 04:39 AM

Quote:
In what regard is the CL710 better than the Sharp 10000? T o be specific, I am only interested in sharpness of focus.
Michael,
There is only one way to get an answer to this question - look at both of these projectors yourself (ideally at a place where you can A/B them, but this is not always easy to do.)

No matter what anyone else says about Projector A versus Projector B, that's their opinion, and not yours.

Sure, you can compare two projectors by reading what someone else has to say, but that's their opinion, not yours. For example, here's what one person had to say about the Runco CL-710 versus some other projectors mentioned in this thread here and here. While stuff like this might be helpful in guiding you through the maze of Front Projectors, it should not be the deciding factor.

Your eyes should be your guide.
RAF
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#11 of 20 OFFLINE   Chad B

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Posted September 09 2003 - 05:12 AM

I was blown away by the picture quality of the Runco and Vidicron DLP projectors at CEDIA. They both had incredible color, fantastic gray scale performance, good detail, and good contrast for DLP's. They were getting near HD quality from DVD's. On the other hand, the Yamaha and SIM2 DLP's left me underwhelmed. The Yamaha had poor convergence-like lens problems, and IMHO the SIM2 folks just didn't have a clue on how to get a good picture from DVD (grainy with video noise and poorly calibrated). If I remember right, the Sharp was too washed out from ambient light to make a judgement.

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#12 of 20 OFFLINE   David Giles

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Posted September 09 2003 - 07:18 AM

Hey Chad,

I'm curious as to other people's opinions about the Marantz Did you get to see it? If so how did you think it compared to the other HD2+ machines? Personally I thought it looked the best (but I didn't get around to seeing the Runco or Vidikron).

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#13 of 20 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted September 09 2003 - 07:34 AM

One thing that has to be considered, of course, is that any projector will only look as good as the way it's set up. I've seen some great projectors looking absolutely horrible when not properly displayed. And this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with where you do your viewing. Some of the so-called "high end" stores sometimes use very "low-end" set-ups so don't get misled into thinking it has to be set up right just because it's in a fancy shop(pe).

The bottom line: Any discussion of Projector A vs. B vs. C, etc. is greatly influenced by the way it's presented. One would hope that shows like CEDIA and respected review publications take the time to do it right, but that's not the bottom line on these things. The best they can do is to narrow your range of selections and then you have to let your eyes and your pocketbook zero in on contenders.

On a personal note, when I took my SONY VW10HT (one of the early 16:9 LCD FPs) out of the box it took a lot of seat of the pants tweaking (with the help of friends and reviewers) to get what I considered a very nice picture for the price. Such is the lot of a "bleeding edger." Very few others with hands-on experience. I spent many hours on the Internet and on the phone sharing possible settings and parameters with other trailblazers.

When I took my Runco CL-710 out of the box it was literally "plug and play." It was set up perfectly from the factory (the 6500K setting was spot on). Not only a much nicer picture (4 years of advances in technology and DLP vs. LCD inherrent differences tend to do this) but it was a much nicer installation experience.

And just the other day my copy of Joe Kane's Digital Video Essentials arrived (an excellent title that should be in any serious HT collection). As I went through all the VIDEO steps I was amazed at how well my CL-710 is adjusted. In other words, I didn't have to change a thing. (The old," If it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach.)

Keep your eyes open when looking at all these FP's but also take a close look at how they're set up!
RAF
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#14 of 20 OFFLINE   DaViD Boulet

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Posted September 09 2003 - 07:49 AM

Oh it makes me feel *so good* to see HTF members talking about front-projection Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image
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#15 of 20 OFFLINE   David Giles

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Posted September 09 2003 - 08:34 AM

Quote:
The bottom line: Any discussion of Projector A vs. B vs. C, etc. is greatly influenced by the way it's presented. One would hope that shows like CEDIA and respected review publications take the time to do it right

So true! Of course since the projectors at CEDIA were set up by the manufacturers themselves, you'd assume that they were set up to the projectors' best advantage. But even that's not a safe assumption.

There's no doubt that my feeling that the Marantz had the best image could have simply been because it was setup better than the rest.

Of course, it could also have had something to do with the Hi-Def Victoria Secret models they were showing on it ;->

But I did love the lens attachment and software that came with it to allow the projector to self-calibrate in 5 minutes.

Robert, I read the links you provided on the Runco CL710. Now I seriously wish I'd gotten around to seeing it at the show.

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#16 of 20 OFFLINE   SteveRB

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Posted September 09 2003 - 08:35 AM

Runco's specs have extremely low contrast ratio (800:1?).. how does this look compared to the Z10000U 3000:1 contrast ratio?

I am VERY sensitive to having best blacks possible.. dismissed Runco on that issue alone...

#17 of 20 OFFLINE   Chad B

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Posted September 09 2003 - 03:34 PM

David,

I might not have seen the Marantz. I saw one in the Texas Instruments section, but I can't remember if it was the Marantz or a different one.
About the low rated contrast on the Runco... I bet if you compared the two side by side after calibration, the difference would be much smaller or maybe even imperceptible. I know Runco showed lots of dark scenes, and the black was very good. There was an incredible amount of detail apparent in the dark grays, and it was never washed out. The blacks looked deep. The dark grays were just the right shade of gray (no green, blue, or red tint), which is both a testament to their good setup/calibration job and the projector. The image was also plenty bright and quite punchy. The most revealing test would have been to display a pluge pattern, though. I will say, previous to CEDIA, I was not a big Runco fan. I thought they were a little overpriced and not substantially better than the competition. I've changed my mind, even though I admit some of the greatness I saw was due to excellent setup/calibration work on their part. But the bottom line is, you can't get a picture like that from most ordinary projectors no matter how great the setup job.
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#18 of 20 OFFLINE   Sean M

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Posted September 09 2003 - 03:50 PM

Interesting that you say that about Runco, considering that they really don't make any of the projectors they sell. They take OEM equipment from other sources, tweak the performance and the case and put the Runco name on it. You do get excellent service and a fully tweaked projector for your money, and how much that is worth is up to you. If their lamp life specs are accurate, then they need to work on that. 1000hrs. is way too short, epecially for the price paid.

I will say this for the HD2's: they are far more alike in terms of overall PQ than they are different. From Runco to BenQ ( Posted Image Posted Image ), it's all about implementation and setup. Infocus has optimized their setup for brightness, Marantz and SIM2 for contrast and black level and every one else falls somewhere in between. You really have to see these projectors in person and tweak them yourself to see what they're really capable of before making a decision.
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#19 of 20 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted September 10 2003 - 05:07 AM

Quote:
Oh it makes me feel *so good* to see HTF members talking about front-projection
David,
Well, the reason HTF members don't talk about FPs so much is that HTF members are too busy using FPs. That's why we know so much about movies (and why we can answer movie trivia questions to win even better FPs!)

It's a tough job but someone has to do it!

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image
RAF
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#20 of 20 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted September 10 2003 - 05:14 AM

Lots of good commentary here about FPs and I concur with the majority of the statements. I would like to reiterate that the final judge has to be your eyes, not the specs. Contrast ratios and lumens only take you so far on paper. It's whats on the screen that counts.

Every manufacturer claims this or that about their products in their literature and zeroes in on their own favorite specs (Runco seems to tout "Foot Lamberts" instead of Lumens) but the bottom line is what the picture looks like.

It's great to do your homework, but make sure that the assignment includes a couple of well placed field trips. A Front Projector is not something you purchase sight unseen, unless it is impractical to see units in person and you are going by the opinion of someone you trust. Even then it would be wise to purchase from a dealer offering a trial period in case things don't look as good as the sound on paper.
RAF
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