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Hybrid Stones and Police discs REPLACED by CD only in the UK....


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#1 of 48 OFFLINE   Justin Lane

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Posted August 31 2003 - 08:16 AM

Just read about these new releases here on the Steve Hoffman forum.

Looks like the earlier Hybrid releases over in the UK are being replaced by single layer redbook discs using the DSD mastered CD layer, neglecting the Hi-res layer in new releases.

Does this mean stealth marketing has been a failure, and labels are beginning to abandon Hybrids as the extra cost of the SACD layer is not being realized in extra sales? The Sony cash cow could also be running dry, which in a shaky economy shows certain labels are not willing to lose money without being subsidized.

Posted Image On this new SACD marketing technique. Hopefully the labels and superstar artists do not see this as a negative case study for further supporting Hi-res. Better pick up those Hybrids while you can, especially if you live in Europe, as they may quickly become collector's items or tough to find in the coming months.

J

#2 of 48 OFFLINE   Michael St. Clair

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Posted August 31 2003 - 09:56 AM

The logical conclusion is that the Sony subsidies for these titles ran out, and the record execs are smart enough to realize that 99%+ of the buyers are only buying for the redbook layer.

#3 of 48 OFFLINE   Marvin

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Posted August 31 2003 - 10:14 AM

Perhaps it's due to all the cracking hybrids???

#4 of 48 OFFLINE   Justin Lane

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Posted August 31 2003 - 10:36 AM

Quote:
Perhaps it's due to all the cracking hybrids???


Thats a good point. From the bad word of mouth press being passed on message boards such as these pertaining to the faulty discs put out by Crest, the entire "SACD Hybrid" is somewhat tarnished and has a negative implication. Since you cannot usually tell where a disc was pressed simply from external packaging, the small number of consumers who do buy discs for the SACD layer of the hybrids, may be turning away. All the more reason for Crest and Sony/Philips to address the issue in a timely fashion.

I know I for one have avoided picking up Steely Dan Gaucho as a Universal SACD hybrid, because to date they have used Crest as their disc supplier, and I have been burnt five times on Crest Hybrids. I will just be waiting for the DVD-A which will be guaranteed crack free.

J

#5 of 48 OFFLINE   Justin Lane

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Posted August 31 2003 - 10:39 AM

Quote:
The logical conclusion is that the Sony subsidies for these titles ran out, and the record execs are smart enough to realize that 99%+ of the buyers are only buying for the redbook layer.


Thats probably the most likely scenario. In the same thread referenced here, Steve Hoffman, who knows quite a bit about SACD mastering and releases, cites the following reason:

Quote:
I'm sure it's the cheap manufacturing cost of a CD compared to the much higher cost of a dual layer disc.


I would call that straight from the horses mouth.

J

#6 of 48 OFFLINE   Michael St. Clair

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Posted August 31 2003 - 10:45 AM

Since UK hybrids have been more reliable, I doubt it's a cracking issue.

There is the possibility that worse-than-typical compatibility with DVD-ROM drives and DVD players is a motivating factor, but I suspect (like Steve Hoffman) that the manufacturing cost is key.

#7 of 48 OFFLINE   Tomoko Noguchi

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Posted August 31 2003 - 11:14 AM

Is there any reason not to believe that this poster (Mr. Lane) is wanting to see the failure of SACD for his much favored DVD-A? It seems to be true.

#8 of 48 OFFLINE   Marc Colella

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Posted August 31 2003 - 11:21 AM

Quote:
Is there any reason not to believe that this poster (Mr. Lane) is wanting to see the failure of SACD for his much favored DVD-A? It seems to be true.

Does it matter?

He's posted something that's actually happening, and is definitely not a good thing for SACD.

I wonder what attempt will be made to throw a positive spin on this piece of news.

#9 of 48 OFFLINE   Tomoko Noguchi

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Posted August 31 2003 - 11:25 AM

Yes, it matters considering the person who posted it and the feeling of his words.Posted Image I thought we had gotten beyond this fight and come to the conclusion that both DVD-A and SACD are both good to have.

#10 of 48 OFFLINE   Rachael B

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Posted August 31 2003 - 12:06 PM

Posted Image Just wait till Lee gets here!!!!
Rachael, the big disc cat is in real life Dot Mongur, Champion of the International Pacman Federation. You better be ready to rumble if you play Jr. Pacman with me. This is full contact Pacman and I don't just play the game, I operate it!


#11 of 48 OFFLINE   Al B. C

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Posted August 31 2003 - 01:30 PM

Quote:
Posted Image Just wait till Lee gets here!!!!

I'm quite sure he's out gathering ammo as we speak, uh I mean type. Posted Image

#12 of 48 OFFLINE   Lee Scoggins

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Posted August 31 2003 - 01:59 PM

I think this thread's contents speak for themselves.
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#13 of 48 OFFLINE   Michael St. Clair

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Posted August 31 2003 - 04:58 PM

Quote:
I think this thread's contents speak for themselves.


1) Logical arguments.
2) Unfounded claims of bias, with no supporting evidence.
3) A refusal to acknowledge the logical arguments.

Yep, it really speaks for itself to me! Posted Image

#14 of 48 OFFLINE   Tomoko Noguchi

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Posted August 31 2003 - 05:58 PM

As the days of higher costs of hybrids goes down, so to will the price of discs and more people will want them.

How's that for a logical argument, Michael?

#15 of 48 OFFLINE   Justin Lane

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Posted September 01 2003 - 03:25 AM

Quote:
Is there any reason not to believe that this poster (Mr. Lane) is wanting to see the failure of SACD for his much favored DVD-A? It seems to be true.


LOL TomokoPosted Image

What does wanting to see a format fail have anything to do with reporting reality? I don't like this news one bit, and it appears you do not either from your response. It is important to be fair and balanced when reporting news however, and such personal attacks are unwarranted just because YOU do not like the reality of the situation.

That being said, I would like to extend an invitation to you for the next time you are in the New Jersey area, to stop over for a demo of my stereo system and the over 50 SACD titles that I own. For someone who wants a format to fail, I sure am doing my darndest in tricking everyone else about my true intentions by buying SACD discs.


J

#16 of 48 OFFLINE   Brian L

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Posted September 01 2003 - 03:26 AM

The current issue of Stereophile has a letter to the editor taking a satirical look at the marketing plans of BOTH formats.

Short story: The DVD-A camp developed the SACD marketing strategy, and the SACD camp did the same for DVD-A.

I found it very funny, and while it is obviously in jest, it wouldn't be quite as funny if it were not so accurate in terms of how both formats have been brought to market.

And BTW, there was absolutely nothing biased about Justin's original post. He is simply making a statement of fact, and to me, he is bemoaning the apparent lack of support for SACD that this move exemplifies.

And if our #1 SACD cheerleader (Hi Lee!) finds nothing to complain about, I have to wonder Tomoko, Where's the Beef?

BGL

#17 of 48 OFFLINE   Justin Lane

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Posted September 01 2003 - 03:29 AM

Quote:
As the days of higher costs of hybrids goes down, so to will the price of discs and more people will want them.



Good point, except that by replacing or supplementing a Hybrid with a redbook only title, the number of Hybrids pressed and sold decreases, and the costs of pressing Hybrids remain the same or could even increase as Hybrid volume decreases. You lose the benefits of large scale production in keeping costs down. Just playing Devil's advocate Posted Image

J

#18 of 48 OFFLINE   Lee Scoggins

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Posted September 02 2003 - 01:52 AM

I have been doing some research on this and here is what I found:

1. The hybrid digipaks were only for an initial run in Europe. Once the inventory ran out, perhaps due to capacity issues, they were going to go to CDs.

2. This was announced by both ABKCO and Sony.

So in my mind, this appears to be a one-off event and not some overall trend against hybrids or Super Audio releases.

I think it is important to keep in mind that they sold some 1 million albums and counting across 22 titles. That's quite a bit of discs and likely ABKCO decided to save some money on the next round by doing redbook. I suspect that the price differential is coming down quickly between SACD and redbook replication.
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#19 of 48 OFFLINE   Michael St. Clair

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Posted September 02 2003 - 02:17 AM

In all honestly, single-inventory, at this point, probably makes little sense. Why reduce your profit margin when most of your buyers are buying for the CD layer?

Lee,

What about the Police? Same deal with A&M as with ABKCO? Does that make it a 'two-off' event?

I'm going to have to buy a few more Stones discs soon. I assume the US discs will suffer the same fate?

#20 of 48 OFFLINE   Doug Otte

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Posted September 02 2003 - 03:39 AM

Quote:
What about the Police? Same deal with A&M as with ABKCO? Does that make it a 'two-off' event?


Yeah, and how about the Peter Gabriel catalog? Should I rush to order 3 & 4 from amazon.fr before they run out? I know I can get the single-layer SACDs in the States, but I prefer the hybrids.

Cheers.
Doug


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