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definitive technology BP2000TL (BIG price drop????)


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16 replies to this topic

#1 of 17 OFFLINE   Bernard L

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Posted November 16 2001 - 03:06 AM

I was looking for paradigm studio 100 for my first and brand new setup earlier in the month.

but yesterday, I came across a definitive technology BP2000TL setup at bay/bloor radio (in toronto, ontario). They sounded damned lousy for a set of speakers close to $3000 USD retail price (from audioreview.com). Then I checked out the specs for these babies and they looked AMAZING! then I checked out how they hooked these guys up! dumb guys didn't use tri-wire, or even bi-wire, only single monster cable with NO AMP... nothing... just plainly hooked it up to a denon 4802.

you want to know how bad it sounded? I have a pair of $100 speakers with 8" drivers for the bass (downto 35hz) and my speakers sounded better than their 500w 15" built in dedicated sub. And these guys that work at baybloor radio were supposed to be high end experts!!!???

anyway, then I came home and checked out the definitive technology website (www.definitivetech.com) and the suggested retail price was only $1599 USD for the exact same speakers.

DID THESE SPEAKERS DROP bBY 50% IN PRICE? if so, I'm definitely going to consider buying these guys over paradigm studio 100.


what do you think?

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#2 of 17 OFFLINE   Tom-K

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Posted November 16 2001 - 03:13 AM

Are you sure they're not 1,599 a piece?

#3 of 17 OFFLINE   BryanZ

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Posted November 16 2001 - 03:19 AM

The price is $1,500 (rounded) each, $3K for the pair. Go with the Paradigms.

#4 of 17 OFFLINE   Bernard L

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Posted November 16 2001 - 03:22 AM

oh. I guess that could be the case Posted Image

silly me!

just never really hear too much about single piece pricing.


so next question:

sound I get these guys or paradigm studio 100?

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#5 of 17 OFFLINE   Mike_T_

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Posted November 16 2001 - 03:38 AM

I tried the Def Tech's in house, the 2002TL's and liked them for Home Theater, but for music they seemd a little raspy at higher volumes. Pure judgement call here, I know they're very good speakers, and after a nice break in would settle down.
I ended up going with the Paradigm Studio 100's and never looked back. They're just incredible! You'd think the Def Techs with built in 12" subs would have more bass, but the Paradigm's have amazing bass, tight and fast.
Both are very good speakers no question, it just depends on what sounds good to you.

#6 of 17 OFFLINE   Holadem

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Posted November 16 2001 - 05:46 AM

I am surprised Bob_A and Hubert didn't show up yet Posted Image

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#7 of 17 OFFLINE   Bernard L

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Posted November 16 2001 - 06:12 AM

I'm too new here to know who bob and hubert are.

but it seems like most of you would prefer the paradigms over the deftec.

thing is, it's an unfair comparison for me because those guys at the store didn't even hook up the speakers right. But I have heard from reviews online that it's not a very good music speaker. and I'm 90% music, 10% dvd.

so paradigms are back on the top of my list once again!

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#8 of 17 OFFLINE   Bob_A

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Posted November 16 2001 - 07:19 AM

quote:
But I have heard from reviews online that it's not a very good music speaker. and I'm 90% music, 10% dvd.[/quote]

This is just not true IMHO. There are some reasons why some people come to this conclusion: they have only heard them in a quick audition, or they have only heard them not well set up, or they have heard them without well matching amplification/associated equipment.

Let me give you some tips on how to set up these speakers. You should probably give 5-10 feet of space in between the speakers, 1-3 feet for the rear drivers to fire, subs should probably fire outward, there should be a few feet of space on the sides for the subs to fire, and you should use a slight toe in. Try to make sure that the left and right speaker are the same distance away from the walls and have roughly the same degree of toe in.

Now, for matching amplification. With receivers, look at Yamaha RX-V1, B&K AVR307, high end Marantz, and maybe Denon 5800. If you are looking at separates, look at Parasound, Macintosh, Krell, B&K (among others).

Now, for wiring. You MUST wire them "full range" in the bass to get nice tight, tuneful bass. Send the long end of a y-connector to the "full range low level in" on the speaker, and send the shorter ends to the "main in" and "pre out" on the receiver. Then send a "normal" speaker cable from the "mid" jumper on the speaker to the main (L/R) inputs on the receiver. You can also try bi/triwiring...but I have not felt the need to do so. Make sure that you use "quality" cables, and make sure that your cables are not overlapping or coiled (excess cable and power cords should be wrapped in a non-overlapping snaking "s" pattern). You might want to give each speaker it's own power outlet, and you might want to use a power conditioner.

Break the speakers in a LOT, experiment a little with positioning, fine tune the bass volume knobs for each speaker...and you should find them to be wonderfully musical!

Several people have compared the bp2000TL's favorably to the B&W Nautilus 802's (8k/pair) for music! And I know one person who switched from bp2000's to Aerial Acoustics Model 10T's...and regretted the switch. I know another person who switched from Paradigm Studio 100's to DT bp30's.

Take a look at:
http://forums.consum....ouJ^3@.eec8ed5 http://www.audiorevi....uct_7146.shtml http://www.audiorevi....uct_8728.shtml

You really must live with these speakers for a while to set them up well and to truly appreciate them for music.

That said, there are lots of great speakers out there.

What amplification will you be using? What are you room dimensions? Will there be any major placement restrictions? I would recommend that the bp2000TL be used mainly in relatively large rooms.

Edit: The street price of bp2000TL's should be around $2-2.5k/pair.

[Edited last by Bob_A on November 16, 2001 at 02:20 PM]

[Edited last by Bob_A on November 16, 2001 at 02:23 PM]

#9 of 17 OFFLINE   Karl Englebright

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Posted November 16 2001 - 07:22 AM

It's funny, but I've read many reviews about how musical Def Tech's are. And I would have to agree. I've had my 2004's for 3 years now and I keep marveling at how good they sound. I prefere their sound to the Paradigms.

#10 of 17 OFFLINE   Bruce Karsten

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Posted November 16 2001 - 09:21 AM

I have both a Paradigm and Def Tech system setup. I enjoy music on both, though each has a different sound. I use Ref 80's from Paradigm driven by a Rotel RSP-985 & RMB-1075, I like the forward sounding mid range for 'punchy' music. The def tech setup is the 2000TLs driven with a B&K Ref 30 & 7270, here I like 'wide-stage' music. As always, you should listen to each as speakers are a very personal choice. For HT, I REALLY enjoy the Def Tech setup.

#11 of 17 OFFLINE   Mike_T_

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Posted November 16 2001 - 09:41 AM

Yeah, I think the hard part about speakers is when you get them home to audition them, they sound as bad as they ever will. Before at least several hours of break in, they'll be harsh on the high end and boomy on the low's. The better speakers such as the def tech's and Paradigm's sound nice out of the box, but both still require significant break in before they reach their potential. You really can't go wrong with either speaker set, that's one certainty!

#12 of 17 OFFLINE   Bob_A

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Posted November 16 2001 - 10:57 AM

Bruce, how have you set up and wired your bp2000TL's? Just curious. Thanks!

#13 of 17 OFFLINE   MannyE

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Posted November 16 2001 - 03:08 PM

AS far as DefTech goes, I feel you would be hard pressed to find a better sounding speaker than the BP 2002 or 2000. I have the BP 2002 (non-tl) which I've been enjoying for quite a few years now and I prefer the sound I get from my setup than what I hear from friend's setups using B&W (bookshelf/sub combo(601?)...the sub being Velodyne).

The B&Ws are supposed to be very musical...and they do sound very good...but I find that the DefTechs are better able to present a wide soundstage and much more able to "dissapear" into the room.

Keep in mind I'm speaking only about music here...I feel you have to spend quite a bit more money to get better movie sound! The BP 2002tl speakers are 2K a pair (I think) and well worth the price!

They are being run by:
B&K Ref 30, Outlaw 750.

Audio sources are: Sony DVPS300(love 1st gen Sony!), Sony crappy 300 CD jukebox (used for parties), Marantz Laser Disc, Music Hall MMF-5 TT, Radio Shack phono pre.
Ni!!

#14 of 17 OFFLINE   Bernard L

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Posted November 16 2001 - 03:53 PM

you know what's funny?
a month ago, my budget was $1500 for receiver and front speakers. (paradigm titans + denon 2802)
2 weeks ago, my budget went to $1500 for fronts, $1500 for receiver. (paradigm studio 100, denon 3802)
1 week ago, my budget went to $1500 fronts, $2000 receiver (paradigm studio 100, denon 4802)

now, I'm thinking $2200 fronts, $2000 receiver (deftec 2000tl, denon 4802)

btw, I'm a definate newbie who wants in on the action... I have very little knowledge of pre-outs, bi-wiring, tri-wiring, full range, amps, etc.

I can pretty much guess the 2000tl will require amps to to bring these babies to life... so there goes another (estimated) $500. and another $250 on cables?

can someone run me a total bill to get these things running (properly)?

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#15 of 17 OFFLINE   Hubert

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Posted November 16 2001 - 05:05 PM

Quote:
I am surprised Bob_A and Hubert didn't show up yet

Hmm, wonder if it bothers you that we did? As for advice, listen to both speakers with music and DVDs you're familiar with. Make sure both are set up properly and hooked up line-level. The guy that you mentioned did a pathetic job hooking those speakers up. God knows what else he had done poorly. After a lot of critical listening, buy the speaker you like best.

As for price, I bought my BP3000TLs brand new, at a price of $3300 dollars. They retailed for $4500. That's $1200 off. But buy what you like best. Otherwise you want be happy. I chose the Def Techs because my system is 95% for home theater, and the 3000 Def Tech system was just better to me than the big NHTs. Could play louder with no distortion, even at ear-splitting levels without a hint of strain or roughness. Just pure, smooth, detailed sound. But you have to decide what your system is for and choose based on your ears. However, as far as bass, I also use a Velodyne HGS-18.

#16 of 17 OFFLINE   Bob_A

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Posted November 16 2001 - 06:34 PM

quote:
I can pretty much guess the 2000tl will require amps to to bring these babies to life[/quote]

Not necessarily true...I use a Yamaha DSP-A1 and have gotten fantastic results!

For music, I highly recommend this combination: bp2000TL + Yamaha RX-V1. Right now, you should be able to find a Yamaha RX-V1 brand new street price of $1500-2000.

I use some decent Monster cables all around, and I use an old inexpensive SONY 5-disc cd player.

Let me know when you get the speakers...hopefully I can help you if you have any problems setting them up.

Good luck!



[Edited last by Bob_A on November 17, 2001 at 01:36 AM]

#17 of 17 OFFLINE   David R. Hendrickson

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Posted November 17 2001 - 12:12 AM


i've had my 2000's for 4-5 years now and still haven't found anything i'd replace them with, except maybe Revels. i think the DefTech's are absolutely fantastic with music...

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