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"Angel" season two is widescreen, not full-frame as previously announced


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#41 of 201 JeanSSullivan

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Posted August 08 2003 - 03:32 AM

I remember reading in IGN from Joss Whedon that Buffy wasn't filmed in Widescreen but Firely and Season 2 (and so on) of Angel was. So when i saw the spec for angel in FullFrame i was suprise to see that.

Now i'am happy to know that Joss was right!

#42 of 201 Mark Turetsky

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Posted August 08 2003 - 03:49 AM

Quote:
Is it just me, or would every one of those shots look better cropped to 4:3?


Indeed. While there's more picture information on the sides of the frame, the subjects are grouped in the center of the frame. More is not necessarily (compositionally) better.
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#43 of 201 Adam Tyner

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Posted August 08 2003 - 03:54 AM

Quote:
I remember reading in IGN from Joss Whedon that Buffy wasn't filmed in Widescreen

Buffy is filmed in widescreen. It's just not meant to be seen that way.

#44 of 201 Geoff_D

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Posted August 08 2003 - 04:51 AM

The Angel season 2 widescreen compositions obviously favour it's broadcast ratio of 4:3, but there's the odd shot here and there (especially later in the season) that does actually use the whole 16:9 frame. But there are also a number of framing errors that would be normally be hidden when watching in 4:3, and I'll leave those for you guys to discover! Errors aside, Angel S2 does look much better in 16:9 than Buffy does IMO.

And it's a bit of a surprise to see 16:9 transfers on the R1 version, as the Aussies didn't get Angel S2 in 16:9 even though uncut PAL masters existed (from the R2 version). So hopefully, with this release, the 16:9 conspiracy theorists (in light of the Buffy arguments) will finally accept that Fox don't have an acute fear of widescreen tv shows on dvd. But Fox had better not release Buffy in 16:9 on the back of this release or I'll be pissed off beyond words. And where is our resident High Priest O' Joss anyway?

#45 of 201 Adam_ME

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Posted August 08 2003 - 04:51 AM

Quote:
Is it just me, or would every one of those shots look better cropped to 4:3?

Some of the shots aren't improved by being 16:9. But a lot of them are. In fact, there's a close up right after that last screenshot which I thought looked a lot better in WS.
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#46 of 201 Ken_McAlinden

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Posted August 08 2003 - 05:18 AM

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Some of the shots aren't improved by being 16:9. But a lot of them are. In fact, there's a close up right after that last screenshot which I thought looked a lot better in WS.
Two points:

1) It's not so much the number of shots being "improved" by being 16:9 as the number of shots being "harmed" by being 16:9 that concerns me. It's analagous to how well-framed 1.85:1 theatrical compositions look all wrong when opened up to 4:3, even if the additonal vertical space occasionally looks nice.

2) My post only concerned the three screen shots offered above, all of which, IMHO, work as well or better at the 4:3 ratio. I have only those three as examples to draw from as do many others reading the thread.

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#47 of 201 JeanSSullivan

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Posted August 08 2003 - 05:50 AM

Strangely framed or not, i found a 16x9 picture way better to fit a Widescreen tv.

While i like the fact that buffy is 4x3 and i respect the director's view, i must always get to comprise it by selecting a strech mode that hide some of the picture or distort it a little.

#48 of 201 Scott Kimball

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Posted August 08 2003 - 06:11 AM

Quote:
While i like the fact that buffy is 4x3 and i respect the director's view, i must always get to comprise it by selecting a strech mode that hide some of the picture or distort it a little.


I don't get it...
Why must you stretch the picture to fit your set?? Enjoy it the way it is intended - in glorious 4:3. Ignore the empty space on the sides. Watch the picture, not the blank space.

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#49 of 201 Daryl L

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Posted August 08 2003 - 06:11 AM

I'm just glad I can watch AS2 without having to use a stretch mode on my hdtv to prevent burn-in. I'm betting the transfer is as good as BuffyS4 and AS1. Not the best in the world but definately better than Buffy seasons 1 & 2. I just love these shows. Posted Image

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#50 of 201 JeanSSullivan

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Posted August 08 2003 - 07:48 AM

Yeah but the Gray bar are wayyyyyyyyy to distracting on a 51 inch tv. The show is mostly black so it create a great constrast. With the sretch mode it's not so bad and i'am getting a full 51 inch vs about 36 inch with the gray bar. The only thing that sold the strechs modes are the cars Posted Image

Anyway i'am still glad that this one is 16x9, the quality on those screenshot are pretty good...

#51 of 201 Robert Ringwald

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Posted August 08 2003 - 07:54 AM

Can someone explain how come movies in widescreen have black bars, but why 4:3 versions on widescreen sets are gray? It seems to me that it would be more distracting.

The black bars don't bug me because black is natural for many movies and shows (and when the lights are off, you can't even tell, why do people complain?). But watching it with gray bars would be awful. I think when I do upgrade to HDTV I won't stretch my 4:3 material, but I'm going to create my own black bars so the sides aren't distracting... Posted Image

#52 of 201 Ken_McAlinden

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Posted August 08 2003 - 08:39 AM

Some projection TVs do grey bars to try to address the unequal burn-in concern. There may be some 4:3 projection TVs that have a 16:9 mode with grey bars, but I'm not sure. It would look kind of funky with a 2.35:1 film with slim black bars and grey bars surrounding them.

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Ken McAlinden
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#53 of 201 Joel C

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Posted August 08 2003 - 09:09 AM

Don't worry about shots being "harmed." Joss got his say with the 4:3 Buffy DVDs, so if Angel is coming out in widescreen, it was filmed that way.
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#54 of 201 Mark_Wilson

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Posted August 08 2003 - 09:17 AM

Jeff Kleist is probably at Otakucon (sp?).

#55 of 201 Daryl L

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Posted August 08 2003 - 10:40 AM

Robert Ringwald,

Majority of the time if you see a widescreen movie(on a 16x9 or a 4x3 tv) with black bars above and below it's because the dvd player or dvd creates the black bars(unless its a 4x3 with a 16x9 mode and still part of that black is done by the player if the movies aspect is 2:35:1). When you see grey bars on the sides the tv is creating them. Some tv's do black side bars, most do grey side bars because grey is a little less seceptable to burn-in. But grey will still cause burn-in, just not as fast as black.(supposedly)
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#56 of 201 Jeffrey Forner

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Posted August 08 2003 - 12:32 PM

JeanSSullivan;

You need to go out and buy a Panasonic RP91 DVD player. This player features a scaling option that will automatically convert 4:3 material such as episodes of Buffy and display the with black bars running down the side of the screen instead of the grey bars you usually find. After ownin this player with these features for over two years now, I would never think about own a DVD player that did not scale DVDs in this way.
-J.Fo

#57 of 201 Richard Paul

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Posted August 08 2003 - 01:04 PM

Adam, are the menus and featurettes on the DVD's 16:9?

#58 of 201 Adam Tyner

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Posted August 08 2003 - 01:05 PM

Menus are. The featurettes on disc 6 aren't. I believe there are a couple of featurettes on disc 3 as well, but Fox didn't send anything but the first and final discs in the set.

#59 of 201 Gord Lacey

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Posted August 08 2003 - 05:53 PM

Coming to the thread a little late...

Why are people complaining about Angel in 16:9? It was shot that way, and aired in widescreen as well.

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#60 of 201 Kenneth_C

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Posted August 08 2003 - 06:31 PM

Angel wasn't aired in widescreen until the third season. (At least, not in the U.S.) Joss apparently wanted to go widescreen in Season Two, but the WB said no. Looks like, with the DVDs, he'll finally get his wish.

The complaints are because many people feel that Season 2 was obviously composed for the 4:3 ratio, with lots of dead space on the sides. (I've seen other widescreen shots from that season and tend to agree.)

So it's not in its "Original (Broadcast) Aspect Ratio". It's in a "Modified to Originally Desired Broadcast Aspect Ratio" instead.

Maybe we need some new acronyms? Posted Image


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