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Timbre Matching - Consolidated thread


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59 replies to this topic

#21 of 60 David_Stein

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Posted August 06 2003 - 07:48 AM

a short answer, ill let someone else get technical:

when you are watching movies (DD, DTS, other surround modes), sounds will be spread across multiple speakers and even will move from one speaker to another as it moves across the screen. different speakers (from different manufacturers as well as different lines within a single maker) have different sonic characteristics due to many things (one that a lot of people point to is the tweeter type and size). if your speakers are timber-matched, as a sound moves from speaker to speaker the sound will sound exactly the same in each speaker. if they aren't then there will be differences in the sound (maybe in one speaker the bass of a helicopter moving across the screen sounds muddier).

#22 of 60 John Garcia

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Posted August 06 2003 - 08:05 AM

I don't really know why you feel it necessary to BARE anything while discussing timbre...Posted Image j/k
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#23 of 60 Neil Joseph

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Posted August 06 2003 - 09:56 AM

Yes, you would like the Ferrari moving across the soundstage to continually sound like a Ferrari and not sound like a Yugo as it moves via the centre speaker for instance. Ideally, the same type of speaker could be used for the front, centre, surround and rear centre speakers. Also, even when identical speakers are used, they can have different sonic characteristics if they are mounted at different heights. If equal height of all of the speakers cannot be obtained (which is under a perfect world because it hardly ever can), then the next best thing is to "aim" the speakers in such a way that the tweeters point towards the listener's ears while seated.
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#24 of 60 Craig Woodhall

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Posted August 06 2003 - 03:02 PM

once I switched to all Paradigm reference, when sounds pan around, they sound identical no matter what speaker it is coming from.

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#25 of 60 Scott Beaver

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Posted August 06 2003 - 03:24 PM

Nathan,

You will definitely get the "best" sound with another 170. However, all of the speakers need not match in order to enjoy rear channel material. I used mismatched rear surrounds while waiting for a replacement for a speaker that was DOA from the factory. Though not perfect, it enhanced my home theater experience and was enjoyable.

I say give the speaker you already have a try. If the mismatch is annoying or detracts from your enjoyment, shell out for another 170. Otherwise, enjoy rear channel encoding on your Energy.

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#26 of 60 Cagri

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Posted August 06 2003 - 06:38 PM

I sometimes find it difficult to understand the administration principals of these boards. People sometimes ask questions about solid problems seeking for some help and noone replies, but on same subject with same topic there are two threads on the board and not only 3 members but also a moderator replies, and it's a subject covered completely in many previous threads in the past as well...
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#27 of 60 Kevin C Brown

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Posted August 06 2003 - 07:01 PM

How do you test, listen for timbre matching? Nobody has really touched on this one aspect of it yet. Posted Image

I use 3 ways pretty much:

1) The white noise tests on Avia, the Chesky Ultimate disc, pick your favorite DVD test disc, and any internal pre/pro test tones. Listen for differences in how the white noise sounds at the listening position. I've found most differences are in the higher frequencies when I've checked out various speakers in my system.

2) There is this great track on the Chesky Ultimate disc, where they pan a musical selection among the 5 speakers. Really nice for comparing real material. #17 with Ana Caram.

3) Then, I just watch a lot of movies. Here, the main thing I listen for, is if any speaker *stands out* from any other, or from the overall soundfield. (Pans too, obviously, although I've never really been able to hear timbre matching problems this way when watching a movie. Pans might be more useful, if for example the video is turned off so you can focus on the audio.) All the levels are calibrated, all phases correct, etc.

For example, I was a big proponent of all direct radiators for surrounds and rears in a 7.1 system. I'm beginning to rethink that, because of #3. The surrounds specifically, can be just too localizeable with some elements of some movies. Still investigating maybe changing placement, or swapping speakers for this one...

How do *you* do it? Posted Image
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#28 of 60 Philip Hamm

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Posted August 07 2003 - 12:20 AM

Interesting topic, and one that is relevant to my recent thread on rear centers that no-one has answered.

I do the same thing, listen to the white noise sweeps and notice the differences. Now you've got me rethinking my rears..... Posted Image
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#29 of 60 peter m. wilson

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Posted August 07 2003 - 01:17 AM

Hi Kevin,

It's the phrase timbre matching that I'm wrestling with.

I own (excluding the sub) 3 different sets of speakers. For the sake of this discussion, and since I run a 7.1 system (a pair is a set sometimes)

My generallity here is that if you buy a set of speakers at the same time, they should be automatically timber matched (thats the idea of buying a pair or a larger set of the same speakers.

I have a set of 5 Totem Model 1 speakers including the center which are supposed to be timber matched automatically. I use these for music and for HT

I have a pair of Axiom QS4 dipoles which I also expect are timber matched. I use these for HT (surrounds B) and sometimes for HIREZ music if it is a live album.

I have a pair of Monitor Audio Bronze B1's which I also expect are timber matched. I use these as effects speakers for the EX or ES portion of films offering this feature. Sometimes for sports I'll use 7ch stereo or some other DSP option on the reciever and invoke all spakers at once which would be 10 including the subwoofer.

Now, I have an upgraded Denon 5800 which through it's setup features and proprietary pink noise sound measuring features, and with the help of a RadioShack SPL meter, I have adjusted distances and calibrated everything to 75db to the sweet spot in the room.

This is as close to timber matching that I feel is possible for my setup.

If you look at things differently please explain.

Peter m.
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#30 of 60 Chu Gai

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Posted August 07 2003 - 01:43 AM

If you find deficiencies, then what approach do you take?

#31 of 60 David_Stein

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Posted August 07 2003 - 02:36 AM

thats a simple answer: and its that these kinds of questions have simple answers, whereas the real problems have answers that may require that the threadstarter wait for someone who has the same or similar equipment, has experienced a similar problem, and knows the answer (and if no one knows the answer, there may be no replies)

#32 of 60 Chris Quinn

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Posted August 07 2003 - 02:59 AM

Well Cagri, it tells you that you get more responses if you included nudity in your thread title. Posted Image

#33 of 60 peter m. wilson

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Posted August 07 2003 - 03:24 AM

Hi Chu,
To whom are you addressing.
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#34 of 60 Justin Ward

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Posted August 07 2003 - 05:45 AM

My Titans/Atoms/CC-170 sound slightly different with pink/white noise tests. I've never been able to notice a difference with normal program material though.

#35 of 60 peter m. wilson

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Posted August 07 2003 - 07:17 AM

Hi,
If you have spl'd them to the sweet spot, then my guess would be that there is something either absorbing or reflecting the sound of one of them.

If that difference is not obvious when listen ing to a movie or music, my suggestion would be to just use and enjoy.

peter m.
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#36 of 60 Neil Joseph

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Posted August 07 2003 - 08:20 AM

Quote:
I sometimes find it difficult to understand the administration principals of these boards. People sometimes ask questions about solid problems seeking for some help and noone replies, but on same subject with same topic there are two threads on the board and not only 3 members but also a moderator replies, and it's a subject covered completely in many previous threads in the past as well...
Cagri, post those questions in the feedback area.
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#37 of 60 Cagri

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Posted August 07 2003 - 05:49 PM

That was a criticism rather than a question and I believe it was posted in the correct place.
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#38 of 60 Lew Crippen

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Posted August 08 2003 - 03:24 AM

Quote:
I sometimes find it difficult to understand the administration principals of these boards. People sometimes ask questions about solid problems seeking for some help and noone replies, but on same subject with same topic there are two threads on the board and not only 3 members but also a moderator replies, and it's a subject covered completely in many previous threads in the past as well...
Quote:
That was a criticism rather than a question and I believe it was posted in the correct place.

An interesting criticism of administrative principals, given that the administrators can’t dictate who (and how many) respond to what questions—even leaving the quality of the response aside.

Writing only for myself, I never (well, hardly ever) respond to questions about equipment with which I have no familiarity. Usually if there is a title with a specific piece of equipment listed, I don’t even open the thread unless it is something that I own or know well. I expect that the same is true fro many other people.

Additionally to your point on multiple threads on the same subject, I try to limit myself to responding to only one.
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#39 of 60 Cagri

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Posted August 08 2003 - 04:13 AM

Quote:
given that the administrators can’t dictate who (and how many) respond to what questions


Lew, that criticism was actually directed to the moderator, not to the responders and I really do not think it is necessary to bash this as the threads are already merged Posted Image
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#40 of 60 Kevin C Brown

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Posted August 08 2003 - 06:45 PM

Dang, I'm still curious as to how others listen for timbre matching! Posted Image
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