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SVS CS+ 16-46 vs PB2+


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28 replies to this topic

#1 of 29 OFFLINE   Krystian C

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Posted August 02 2003 - 03:36 AM

Hi all,

Getting ready to take the SVS plunge after so many positive reviews from all you happy SVS owners. I was all set to pick up a pair of CS+ 16-46, that was until I started reading all the hype on the PB2+. Now I am a not sure what to buy.

Anyone know how well the CS+ 16-46's compare to the PB2+?

I know the pair of CS's cost more than a single PB2+, so will the performance dictate the price difference?

Would a pair of PB2+'s be overkill?

My room is currently 12x20 with 10' ceilings, but I will be moving to a dedicated Theater Room in a while. It will be about 14 x 30 with 9' ceilings.

If all goes well I will be picking either one by the end of August.Posted Image

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanx.

Krys

#2 of 29 OFFLINE   Zack_R

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Posted August 02 2003 - 04:54 AM

Quote:
Anyone know how well the CS+ 16-46's compare to the PB2+?

In an anechoic chamber the pair of 1646 CS + subs will never play as loud as the PB2+ from 25~ Hz and up and the PB2+ will never play as loud as the 1646 CS+ below 25~.

Your room size may allow you some room gain below the PB2+ tuning point. This can allow you to achieve usable power levels down to the 16Hz range. I'd e-mail SVS and see what they sugget for both your current room and future room.

This comparison really is at about the most extreme opposite end of the SVS offerings you could try and make. Powered (Subsonic filter, variable phase, auto-on) vs. Non-powered, cylinder vs. box and low stock tune versus high stock tune.

If you are considering the PB2+ then would you be happy with a pair of 2531CS+ cylinder subs? This is a better comparison against the PB2+. If you would not be a happy with the 2531 CS+ then considering the PB2+ is a mute point. At least it would for me. I say this based on the assumption that you've done some research and concluded that for your listening habits and music taste the lower tuned 1646 CS+ fits your needs better than the 2531 CS+.

If you go the non-powered cylinder route I would recommend purchasinig just one sub. If after proper set-up and calibration (83 db on Avia) you need more than one sub then purchase another. Unless you listen to movies above 5 db from reference, I think one sub would do you just fine. You will find that more times than not that you can play most action packed movies at full reference (proper calibration required) with one sub simply because the LFE will not peak to a level that will bottom or distort your sub.

#3 of 29 OFFLINE   Krystian C

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Posted August 02 2003 - 07:04 AM

Zack,

The low excursion is where I am a little torn. I would really like to be able to go as low as possible for some of the rare movie tracks out there. But at the same time, I know there is a hell of alot more soundtracks that utilize the mid 20's and up, then there are 25 and below.

I know the PB2+ can be tuned to 16, 20 or 25. But not exactly sure of the trade off for blocking ports.

I have sent an email to Ron and Tom already, just waiting to hear back (Monday I hope). Just figured I would troll for some info over the weekend.

I know the

#4 of 29 OFFLINE   Edward J M

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Posted August 02 2003 - 10:41 AM

If I had a choice (cost no object) between dual 16-46 PC-Plus or a single PB2-Plus, I'd take the dual cylinders hands down.

The PB2-Plus might have more output above 25 Hz, but if it does, it will be a very small advantage. I know the 16-46 enclosure has the least overall output of the three cylinders in exchange for the extra extension, but the dual cylinders will have a considerable port area advantage, and almost 200 watts more power.

On the contrary, the dual cylinders will have a considerable advantage below 20 Hz, and at 16 Hz it will simply be no contest. Yes, you can tune the PB2+ to 20 or even 16 Hz, but in the process you are losing considerable port area and output, whereas the dual 16-46 retains full port area and a stock 16 Hz tune.

Zack really made the best point - you couldn't have picked a more disparate comparison in the entire line-up. If you want to really troll the subsonic regions at max volume and be sure you are getting ALL the bass (even if it only lasts for a few seconds on a handful of DVDs), the get the duals. But you will be paying a considerable premium over the PB2+.

Regards,

Ed
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#5 of 29 OFFLINE   Steve_D

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Posted August 02 2003 - 03:28 PM

Don't forget, the 16-46 has the flatest overall FR curve, thus being the music lovers choice as well. In other words, its not just the few seconds of a few DVD's that MAY make the 16-46 the right choice.

#6 of 29 OFFLINE   Jason_Me

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Posted August 02 2003 - 07:50 PM

You will also be able to stagger the dual subs placement to reduce room problems, and run stereo subs for music playback.
Jason Mertz

#7 of 29 OFFLINE   Krystian C

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Posted August 03 2003 - 01:48 AM

Hey all,

Well I got a response from Ron. Looks like my best option will be the CS+ subs. The 2 CS+ will have an edge over the PB2+, and the tweakability of the CS+ subs is definately appealing. Now all I have to do is work my ass off this month (97 hrs OT in August) and I should be placing an order no later than Sept 15th. Thanx for the help all, mush appreciated.

Krys

#8 of 29 OFFLINE   Edward J M

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Posted August 03 2003 - 02:20 AM

One question: Why the CS-Plus and not the PC-Plus?

Do you already have a spare 500 WPC high current amp and the SVS01 Marchand Bass Box? Because that's what you would need to equal the features and power of dual PC-Plus.

The PC-Plus has the onboard 4 position SS filter and continuously variable (0-180) phase control. IMO, it offers a less complicated and neater plug and play hook-up. All you need is a Y splitter off the subwoofer pre-out, two sub cables, and you're in business.
Ed Mullen
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"What we do in life, echoes in eternity."


#9 of 29 OFFLINE   Krystian C

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Posted August 03 2003 - 03:36 AM

Ed,

Don't have a spare amp kicking around, I am just getting the Sampson, with plans to upgrade in the future. My plans are to possibly pick up a couple mono blocks down the road, and I will be using the samson to power a few Bass Shakers, or Butt Kickers. I know the setup is a little more difficult, but I like the seperate amp, and the options the setup would provide. That is also part of the reason I was torn between the PB2+'s. They are essentially plug and play, and I like seperates, everything else in my system is, may as well go seperates for subs as well.

#10 of 29 OFFLINE   steve nn

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Posted August 03 2003 - 03:47 AM

Something I found that works for me is running my AV15 20Hz tuned sub along with my duel 25-31 CS+'s located in the same corner. I had misgivings about this approach until I tried it. It gives me all the SPL, depth, headroom plus quality of bass that I have been looking for in my 12 X 24 X 10' ceiling leaky 2880 cubic ft HT room. This configuration has finally slain my need/obsession to upgrade in the bass dept. I calibrate all three individually and then bring them all back to a flat on up to a +3dB calibration collectively for HT.
Would this work for you?? Maybe not and then maybe it would?? Has SVS ever recommended trying this? My hunch is maybe not (my hunch could be way off) and I understand. My situation is a little different and possibly I concede I might be happier with three 20-39 CS+'s. Whatever like Duel SVS + con-fig you decide to go with will most likly give you the performance and headroom in the HT you describe your looking for?

Posted Image

#11 of 29 OFFLINE   Lynn Little

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Posted August 03 2003 - 04:40 AM

"Don't forget, the 16-46 has the flatest overall FR curve, thus being the music lovers choice as well. In other words, its not just the few seconds of a few DVD's that MAY make the 16-46 the right choice."

Steve, this is a VERY valid point. I love my twin 16-46 PC+s for music as much as I do for movies.
Lynn Olan Little

#12 of 29 OFFLINE   james e m

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Posted August 04 2003 - 12:54 AM

How would dual PB2+s do against dual 16-46 PC+s? I guess what I'm asking is how low and how loud would dual PB2+s be able to compared to the dual 16-46 PC+s? Would the 16-46 PC+s still be able to play lower if the PB2+ was tuned to 16hz?

James
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#13 of 29 OFFLINE   Edward J M

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Posted August 04 2003 - 01:50 AM

Well, you would be asking each PB2+ to vent out a single 4" flared port in the 16-20 Hz region. This would be akin to buying a 25-31PC+ and plugging two ports and running in the 16 Hz tune. The question that begs to be asked is: Why buy this particular model and then expect it to operate full time an octave below its native tune?

Running a PB2+ or a 25-31PC+ in the 16 Hz tune is really a misapplication of the intended use. Kind of like asking how many Corvettes would it take to tow my 10,000 pound boat trailer when there is a F-350 Super Duty with the PowerStroke turbo diesel sitting in the driveway.

The 25-31PC+ and the PB2+ were designed at the outset to provide big output above 22-23 Hz in large rooms. These models are not designed to troll at max volume in the subsonic region. That's why SVS gives you a choice; they realize that customers have different wants and needs and that not every sub can do all things equally well, even if it has variable tuning.

You really need to think carefully about your specific music and HT listening tastes, volume preferences, and room size. Consult with SVS and buy the subwoofer(s) that most closely match those needs, and plan to operate the sub(s) in the stock/native tune most of the time.

Regards,

Ed
Ed Mullen
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SVS

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"What we do in life, echoes in eternity."


#14 of 29 OFFLINE   Brian Bunge

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Posted August 04 2003 - 02:06 AM

Steve nn,

You keep referring to your duel SVS subs. My question for you is why are your dual SVS subs always fighting? Posted Image
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#15 of 29 OFFLINE   Steve Stogel

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Posted August 04 2003 - 03:15 AM

You keep referring to your duel SVS subs. My question for you is why are your dual SVS subs always fighting?

Posted Image

I'm a court reporter, so that strikes me as particularly funny.

Steve

#16 of 29 OFFLINE   Steve_D

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Posted August 04 2003 - 07:19 AM

"Running a PB2+ or a 25-31PC+ in the 16 Hz tune is really a misapplication of the intended use. Kind of like asking how many Corvettes would it take to tow my 10,000 pound boat trailer when there is a F-350 Super Duty with the PowerStroke turbo diesel sitting in the driveway."

Damn, that's one heavy boat trailer! How much does the whole rig weigh with the boat on it, and what do you pull it with?


Posted Image

#17 of 29 OFFLINE   Edward J M

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Posted August 04 2003 - 08:23 AM

Quote:
Damn, that's one heavy boat trailer! How much does the whole rig weigh with the boat on it, and what do you pull it with?


Yes, yes........the thought had occured to me that "10,000 pound" modifies the word "trailer", and that perhaps some judicious editing was in order. But I was too lazy and you called me on it. Touche.

To answer your question, smart ass, the trailer is constructed of pure tungsten and sports M1 tank treads on each side to support its weight. The boat is a Regal 3880 Commodore with the optional 840 HP Cummins diesel, and has a dry weight (before we stock the bar) of 17,800 pounds. Total GCVW is 27,800 pounds. I pull it with an F-750 Super Duty which (coincidentally) has GCWR of 60,000 pounds and a GVWR of 33,000 pounds, for (surprise) a maximum trailer weight of 27,000 pounds. How's that? Posted Image
Ed Mullen
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SVS

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"What we do in life, echoes in eternity."


#18 of 29 OFFLINE   steve nn

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Posted August 04 2003 - 08:40 AM

OK Mr. BungPosted Image You had me thinking there for a second. I enlisted the help of my wife and she set me strait. I figured I was spelling it wrong after your little jest. I didn't get it at first I admit. Slow you know. You must remember the time I let you know how bad I did in spelling, reading, history and math. I did fairly well in the other subjects though. My good looks and personality have kept me afloat thus far. Heck! I've been spelling duel like this for years and I'm afraid I just might keep on making the same mistake for I never use Spell Check::::::::
__________________________________________________ _________

Sorry Krystian for deviating from your question.

#19 of 29 OFFLINE   Richard Little

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Posted August 04 2003 - 08:41 AM

Who would win in a fight between Batman and Spiderman? Since so many people are always asking the question about this SVS verse that SVS, it would be kind of helpful if SVS could put some kind of comparative FR chart up on their site (with the stipulation that the FR's came from their testing and may not be reproducible in your particular room). With the people who know the most about the product conducting the side by side comparisons, variables such as (room, volume, etc.) could remain the same and thus show comparative results under optimal conditions, similar to this link.
http://www.garmin.co...oor/compare.jsp not that a gps has anything to do with subs but a comparison of this type with frequencies overlaid on the same graph would show a good visual representation of the differences. Maybe there is a problem with doing this that I am not aware of else it would have already been done?

#20 of 29 OFFLINE   Steve Stogel

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Posted August 04 2003 - 12:35 PM

OK Mr. Bung

Hee hee. Methinks that was an intended misspelling.

she set me strait

This one probably not, though. Posted Image

Steve





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