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HTF Review: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - The Complete Fourth Season

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98 replies to this topic

#81 of 99 OFFLINE   Ric Easton

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Posted August 19 2003 - 09:09 AM

The new DS9 covers are right Here!

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#82 of 99 OFFLINE   Scott Kimball

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Posted August 19 2003 - 01:22 PM

Quote:
It's getting to be that sad time where I am over halfway through the set and facing a month and a half (or more) of waiting for more DS9. I could pace myself, but it's hard enough limiting myself to one a night.


Season 5 streets 10/7.
Hang in there.

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#83 of 99 OFFLINE   Greg_S_H

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Posted August 19 2003 - 02:36 PM

If I spread out these final episodes, I could get it down to less than one month to go. Posted Image

#84 of 99 OFFLINE   Joseph Bolus

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Posted August 19 2003 - 05:49 PM

Just for the record, I, also, have noticed the audio sync problems described in this thread with the "Sons of Mogh" episode.

It's really odd in that in the scene where Sisko is tearing into Worf, Dax's lines don't seem to be as badly out of sync as Sisko's and Worf's.

My player is a Panny S35 and it's the first time that it has ever exhibited any kind of sync problems.

Quote:
It would be interesting for someone with the episode on tape to compare the questionable scenes with those on disc... but given my observations, I'm going with a looping error.

This is a possibility; however, some of the audio besides just dialog seems to be out of sync in the scene just prior to this one (at least on my player) so it doesn't seem to be just a looping problem.
Joseph
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#85 of 99 OFFLINE   Greg_S_H

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Posted August 19 2003 - 08:50 PM

It may be a player-specific problem. It seems everyone experiencing the problem has had a Panasonic (though, I'm not sure if Scott has mentioned his player). I just watched the episode and did not experience any out-of-sync dialog on my Pioneer. The best test would seem to be Dax's comm-badge, and it was fine for me. It was hard to tell with Sisko in the "chewing out" scene since his mouth was moving a mile a minute there. I certainly wouldn't have noticed anything there at all if I hadn't been looking for it.

If anyone with a Panny who is experiencing the problem could screen it on a different brand player, I'd be interested to hear your results.

#86 of 99 OFFLINE   Rollie

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Posted August 20 2003 - 12:25 AM

I experienced the same lip synch problem on my Sony Playstation2. So, the problem can't strictly be limited to Panasonic.
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#87 of 99 OFFLINE   Scott D S

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Posted August 20 2003 - 12:30 AM

Quote:
(though, I'm not sure if Scott has mentioned his player)


I have a Toshiba.

#88 of 99 OFFLINE   Joseph Bolus

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Posted August 20 2003 - 02:29 AM

Quote:
If anyone with a Panny who is experiencing the problem could screen it on a different brand player, I'd be interested to hear your results.

OK ... I stuck the disc containing the "Sons of Mogh" episode into my Computer's DVD drive and tried three different kinds of DVD Player software (RealAudio, WinDVD, and Interactual).

In each case, the audio sync problem was barely detectable. In particular, when Dax presses her communicator in the scene just prior to the confrontation with Sisko the audio is totally in sync. In the confrontation scene that follows only one line of Sisko's tirade is even slightly out of sync. Worf and Dax's dialog is now seemingly in sync.

The problem remains with my "Panny" S35 however Posted Image .

My "Panny" is a progressive scan player, and I wonder if that has something to do with this?
Joseph
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#89 of 99 OFFLINE   Greg_S_H

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Posted August 20 2003 - 09:37 AM

I don't know much about the technical side of DVD players, but maybe it's something like a layer change, where it can be seamless on one player and noticeable on another. That really doesn't sound like it makes sense for an synching glitch like this, but it does seem there is a problem with the episode that some players can overcome.

#90 of 99 OFFLINE   nicholas_g

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Posted August 20 2003 - 09:45 AM

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Thanks Nicholas,

I'm glad to hear that the R2 packaging was not all it was cracked up to be! (Glad for us R1'ers anyway) Season 4 should be available on both this site and DVD Cover Art soon.

They look very nice but they have turned out not practical (like most custom DVD packaging).

Thanks for the new cover.

#91 of 99 OFFLINE   Scott Kimball

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Posted August 20 2003 - 10:25 AM

Quote:
It may be a player-specific problem. It seems everyone experiencing the problem has had a Panasonic (though, I'm not sure if Scott has mentioned his player).


I reviewed this on a Toshiba player, and double-checked the episode in question on an iBook with a DVD ROM drive.

There may well be an issue with the decoders in some players, and not others. The _only_ scene I noticed a problem with before anyone else mentioned it was the Sisko scene... and I attributed it to either looping, or the fact the he talks so fast and articulates so emphatically, that it was difficult for me to process what was going on.

Going back, after I read some complaints, I started to _maybe_ see an issue in a few isolated spots. The problem with this kind of a complaint is the "herd mentality." I am told there is a problem, so I see a problem...

... no, I'm NOT saying there is no problem... it is easy, however, to get caught up in it and believe it when the evidence is thin.

So... perhaps we have a decoder-dependent issue, compounded by bad looping in a couple of spots?? In any case, from my personal observations on the players I used, it's not a serious issue. If I experienced it more seriously on my setup, I may well feel differently.

I guess the jury is still out.

-Scott

#92 of 99 OFFLINE   Chris

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Posted August 23 2003 - 02:20 AM

I may be alone in this.. my video doesn't miss lip sync, but the overall quality looks horrible; it looks like badly done MPEGs with compression artifacts. I've tried three different players (my PC, on a Pioneer A05; a Panasonic changer, A Toshiba changer) BAH!

It's not "horrible" VCD like, but skin tones look obviously compressed with a sort of bathroom towel kind of matte over them Posted Image

But maybe it's just me.
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#93 of 99 OFFLINE   Randy_M

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Posted August 26 2003 - 12:57 AM

I just watched Sons of Mogh on my RP91 last night, and the lip sync problem is HORRIBLE - it occurs sporadically throughout the program. Doesn't happen on any other episodes that I've seen.

On my player, at least this episode is nearly unwatchable; and I think Paramount should replace it (not holding my breath)
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#94 of 99 OFFLINE   Greg_S_H

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Posted August 26 2003 - 07:23 AM

As I've said before, I'm watching this series for the first time on DVD and enjoying it. That said, I'm approaching the last five episodes of season 4, and I still don't see how it has "hit its stride" this season. It still feels like the same show it has been all along. Not that that's a bad thing, but I'm still waiting for the serialization I've been hearing about. The Dominion has pretty much been put on the back burner so far this season. Upcoming episode titles seem to suggest that will change here at the end, but so far I'm lumping this in with what has come before.

In fact, I have found three things very annoying this season. Maybe they will be addressed in the future, but I doubt it:

Sons of Mogh:

I just don't like the resolution of the Kurn character. It hardly seems honorable to turn him into someone new (even though he wouldn't know), but forgetting the way the characters feel about it, I just don't like it. No more Tony Todd. No more Kurn. I guess if Worf had made things right again with the Klingons, it would be a rehash of the big TNG season 4 Worf storyline, but this just didn't satisfy me.

Return to Grace:

I liked Gul Dukat's daughter. She seemed like an interesting character, and I was pleased to hear she was going to be staying on the station for a while. A lot of potential there. But, a check on the IMDb shows that that actress never again appears. There has been no mention of her so far. I suppose the next time Dukat shows up, maybe a line of dialog will explain it. But, it smacks of what people hated about Voyager: introducing concepts for the sake of a single episode, and then ignoring it. The same thing can be said about my next complaint.

Hard Time:

O'Brien should be changed forever after this episode. I don't think one little exchange with Bashir would turn him completely around. But, it looks like it's going to be a one-episode affair, soon forgotten. I'm actually glad in this case, as I don't really want to see O'Brien haunted by a twenty year incarceration that never happened. But, once something's introduced, you ought to have to live with it. I can't really fairly judge whether they wimp out on this one, as O'Brien has only had one small scene (as O'Brien) in the episodes I've watched since then.

If these issues are addressed in the future, please let me know in a delicate fashion. I still want to remain spoiler-free for the remaining trio of seasons. Posted Image

#95 of 99 OFFLINE   Britton

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Posted August 26 2003 - 08:15 AM

Greg_S_H, Ziyal does return as one of the recurring characters that DS9 is famous for and plays a significant role. As a matter of fact, she was portrayed by 3 different actresses over the course of the series. I don't the other issues you discussed coming up again.

#96 of 99 OFFLINE   Andrew Bunk

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Posted August 26 2003 - 08:22 AM

Greg,

As a fellow Trek fan viewing these seasons for the first time in their entirety, I think I'm in a similar position.

Sons of Mogh:


Quote:
I just don't like the resolution of the Kurn character. It hardly seems honorable to turn him into someone new (even though he wouldn't know), but forgetting the way the characters feel about it, I just don't like it. No more Tony Todd. No more Kurn. I guess if Worf had made things right again with the Klingons, it would be a rehash of the big TNG season 4 Worf storyline, but this just didn't satisfy me.

This also felt like a less than stellar ending for a great character IMO. I agree on avoiding the TNG rehash, but why not let him die in dignity?



Return To Grace

Quote:
I liked Gul Dukat's daughter. She seemed like an interesting character, and I was pleased to hear she was going to be staying on the station for a while. A lot of potential there. But, a check on the IMDb shows that that actress never again appears. There has been no mention of her so far. I suppose the next time Dukat shows up, maybe a line of dialog will explain it. But, it smacks of what people hated about Voyager: introducing concepts for the sake of a single episode, and then ignoring it. The same thing can be said about my next complaint.

I read ahead into some of the plot summaries for later seasons, the character is definitely revisited. I like the character too-Cardassians in general seem to intrigue me.


Hard Time

Quote:
O'Brien should be changed forever after this episode. I don't think one little exchange with Bashir would turn him completely around. But, it looks like it's going to be a one-episode affair, soon forgotten. I'm actually glad in this case, as I don't really want to see O'Brien haunted by a twenty year incarceration that never happened. But, once something's introduced, you ought to have to live with it. I can't really fairly judge whether they wimp out on this one, as O'Brien has only had one small scene (as O'Brien) in the episodes I've watched since then.

This episode threw me for a loop as well. I couldn't believe they would inflict this kind of tragedy on the character, and then I couldn't believe they would dismiss so readily. I enjoyed the episode, but I was also perplexed.


Also in general, I agree that I had hoped for much more Dominion action in season 3 and 4, but I really do think that 5-7 are where it takes off, based on the episode guides I've looked at.
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#97 of 99 OFFLINE   Rex Bachmann

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Posted August 26 2003 - 08:29 AM

Greg_S_H wrote (post #94):

Quote:
If these issues are addressed in the future, please let me know in a delicate fashion. I still want to remain spoiler-free for the remaining trio of seasons.


"Hard Time":
I could be wrong but I think the effects of the "imprisonment" are referenced somewhere in future episodes.


"Sons of Mogh":
It's hard to respond to this without some kind of possibly unwelcome revelation. Shall I say that Tony Todd never appears again as that character and leave it for you to infer what that says about the character's appearance? I cannot remember whether the character of Kurn is ever referenced again in the show. If so, it would be towards the end of the last season, I expect.


"Return to Grace":
The character you speak of appears several times in later seasons in critical plot turns. She's just played by a different actress.

"Delenda est . . . . "

 


#98 of 99 OFFLINE   Rex Bachmann

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Posted August 26 2003 - 08:51 AM

Andrew Bunk wrote (post #96):

Quote:
This episode threw me for a loop as well. I couldn't believe they would inflict this kind of tragedy on the character, and then I couldn't believe they would dismiss so readily. I enjoyed the episode, but I was also perplexed.

Terry Erdmann's Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion (pg. 328) has this to say about O'Brien's experiences:

Quote:
In the script, Dr. Bashir says of O'Brien, "He's been through some terrible things in his life," and lists a catalogue of misfortune that serves to remind the viewer of how the character has been tortured over the years. Of course, that is all in the producers' overall plan. "Every year we like to drive O'Brien totally mad," laughs Behr. "We did it with 'Whispers,' we did it with 'Tribunal' and 'Visionary,' and we did it again the following season in '. . . .' We just like to hammer him because he's such a great character. And he's so accessible. You feel his pain, and even though it's a TV show and you figure he's gonna come out all right at the end, you're still compelled to root for him."

"Delenda est . . . . "

 


#99 of 99 OFFLINE   Greg_S_H

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Posted August 26 2003 - 09:39 AM

Thanks for clearing up the Ziyal issue. I made the mistake of searcing on the actress instead of the character. :b

As for the rest, I'll just sit tight and see what happens. From what you're saying, Rex, it sounds like I might have made the same mistake with Sons of Mogh that I did with Ziyal. I guess I'll find out soon enough.

Andrew, it's good to know someone else is discovering the series on DVD. It's been a lot of fun, and it will be kind of sad when it's over.


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