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Opinions on my new system


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60 replies to this topic

#41 of 61 Robert_Gaither

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Posted July 27 2003 - 03:03 PM

I hope he's not a very good friendPosted Image . After you sell them to your "friend" tell him recording engineers don't use Bose (music or movies), audio magizine reviewers don't own Bose, not used in any movie theaters, none can meet THX specs, none are accurate, and bad part is that people have heard of this brand and not use them, to me which is far worse than not hearing of them (ie Paradigm) and not using them.

#42 of 61 Rex Quinn

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Posted July 27 2003 - 05:44 PM

You have joined the leagues of the informed and un-ignorant. Go forth and spread the word! Posted Image

#43 of 61 Jon Musil

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Posted July 27 2003 - 06:12 PM

Bill, are you familiar with the saying, with friends like you....? I guess all is far in the love of great HT though!

I linked a couple of these "Bose" related links to my B.I. L. and he's still in denial and says I can't shake him loose from his Bose. A real shame too, because all the other stuff he has is "A" quality!

#44 of 61 MikeTrotter

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Posted July 27 2003 - 06:16 PM

Wow this is great news William!!!If you talk to your Paradigm dealer you should be able to walk away with a nice system in the same price range.The Paradigm dealer should be able to walk through which setup would be right for you.Its nice to see you have seen the light!!!!!!!!Posted Image

#45 of 61 DaveGTP

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Posted July 28 2003 - 07:57 AM

Always good to see someone swayed from the Dark Side. I had to learn myself about Bose after I came here Posted Image *Yoda voice* - Into the light, and away from the darkness, you have come.
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#46 of 61 SeanV

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Posted July 29 2003 - 03:34 AM

Bill,

You should be able to get a pretty good deal on the Studio V2 series, with the V3 series now available. I was able to get the studio 40s and a pair of Atoms for about $850(US). I'm also going to get the Studio CC center and an SVS sub. It still amazes me that the entire Paradigm surround set and the SVS will be only a couple hundred $$ more than the 901s and center that I have from Bose(which I am currently trying to sell).


Sean
"A good friend will bail you out of jail.....A true friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damn..we *$%#@ up"

#47 of 61 BryanZ

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Posted July 29 2003 - 07:30 AM

Bose main problem is their AM series. That they market more heavily than anything else in their product line, save their Wave Radio (another piece of junk). The 601s are good and should do well with another 601 center and 301 surrounds. Couple them with a sub from SVS, Adire Audio, or HSU and you should have a system you are proud of. Replace the speakers if you want but make sure you are happy with whatever you get. Another thing to do is see if someone in your area has some of the internet only speakers (nOrh, Ascend Acoustics, Axiom, Home Theater Direct, etc.) and will let you audition them.

#48 of 61 Rick Ewing

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Posted July 29 2003 - 08:03 AM

William,

Try not to get concerned about the fact that people might not have ever heard of Paradigm or any of the other speakers you have auditioned. The loudspeaker market is interesting in the fact that it has a few very large manufacturers (Bose, Harmon International who makes JBL and Infinity), the consumer electronics brand names who build them to round out their product line (Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic, etc...most of these aren't any good either) and everybody else. There are a lot of brands in the "everybody else" category...dozens of them. Most of them build very nice product and have dealer networks all over the U.S. at every price point imaginable. Some only sell through the Internet (Onix, Axiom, Ascend, SVS) which makes auditioning their products more difficult.

Most people have only heard of Bose or JBL because of their extensive broad marketing campaigns or their OEM businesses. Bose has a huge chunk of the premium OEM car audio market. Bose also advertises broadly in non-audio publications like Time, Newsweek or People. Almost no-one else does since most companies just don't have the budget for it. Having Paul Harvey tout your products everyday doesn't hurt either. Bose loudspeakers are generally expensive because of their high margins, but also because of their high advertising costs. Also, Bose runs a small but growing chain of boutique stores which are not inexpensive to operate, even though they are usually found only in outlet store malls.

Six months ago, my wife and I wandered into a Bose store while on vacation in Florida. I admit, I was looking for a few good laughs and to see how Bose was presenting their products these days. My wife who had not cared less about speaker performance a year ago is now spoiled since we got our new system in house back in February (I have Onix Rockets).

The Bose store experience is extremely well done and attractive to the potential customer. The sales reps are all young and well groomed wearing the standard uniform of polo shirts and khakis. I decided to ask for the full blown demo of the acoustimass system in their "theatre" room.

The "theater" is a room in the back of the store that looks like a small theatre to show movies, but in reality is only set up for a sophisticated slide presentation. On the table in front of you are some obviously fake (well, fake to me) stereo components and the speakers on the walls in front are large imposing boxes, also fake. No attempt is made to high the AM units mounted on the wall to the sides of you. After going through a nice and loud demo trying to sell you on what sound presentation should be by using tricks pioneered in Disney's Epcot Center, the Bose rep comes into the room and pulls away the fake speaker and HT components to reveal the Bose speakers underneath. At this point, my wife and I are desperately trying to contain our laughter.

The next demo was in front of a Philips RPTV showing a clip from the Lord of the Rings using AM speakers. The funny thing about all this is that if we had done these demos before buying the Rockets, my wife would have said this sounded great. After having the Rockets in our living room, she agreed...this presentation sounded empty and devoid of a full soundstage. Imaging was horrible because of the reflections (a design feature for Bose). The only thing the Bose speakers could do well is play loud, which a lot of people mistake for playing well. It's not hard to generate a lot of noise out of a small package. The criminal act was that a fully equipped AM system was going to cost $3000...more expensive than my set of Rockets. The other problem with Bose is their Lifestyle systems have a central unit with limited power, and doesn't even try to adhere to the common digital format standards common in the industry (Dolby Pro Logic II, DTS, etc).

I'm glad to hear that you've made the switch. If you've been reading any of these threads in this forum or elsewhere, you know that people rarely agree on the question "what loudspeaker system sounds best for the money?". But almost everyone in these forums agree that Bose products are going to be at the bottom for price/performance that you could find. Name recognition in this case does not mean the best product in the world of loudspeakers. Paradigm is a good brand and not a small company in terms of shipped units in this business. They have legions of satisfied customers and you should enjoy years of quality service.

#49 of 61 Phil Rose

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Posted July 30 2003 - 04:17 AM

Quote:
Just got off the phone with a friend who claims to be an audiophile telling me he never heard of paradigms. He asked me how they could be better than bose if they are so hard to find and if hardly anyone owns them. I offered to sell him my bose set-up for $100.00 less than what I paid and he accepted
WARNING!! WARNING!!
Do NOT let your friend listen to your new speakers or he won't be your friend any longer! Posted Image

Enjoy your new full range sound and welcome to the forum.

#50 of 61 Mando-R

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Posted July 30 2003 - 05:32 AM

Just a heads up: I know how much stores pay for those Bose speakers, and the mark up is pretty dang steep.
You are what you eat

#51 of 61 ChrisWiggles

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Posted July 30 2003 - 01:23 PM

Bill!

NOOOoooo000oOOOO000.

Don't tell me you went with Paradigm!

Dammit. I love recommending paradigm, and too bad i made it to this thread so late, cause I coulda gotten some credit on the conversion too! Posted Image

Hehe. Seriously, Paradigm kicks MAJOR a$$ in sound quality for ridiculously low money. I'm very happy that we were able to convince you to go listen to other speakers and brands.

I think many people who might have bought Bose cling to their marketing slogans, and convince themselves that Bose sounds great. Then when we try to tell the truth, it sounds like flaming and bashing (which unfortunately it sometimes is Posted Image ), and they never go listen to anything else. That's MY strategy in getting people to try other brands, is not to convince them to go buy some brand you recommend, and you KNOW is better, but just to have them come over and listen to your setup, or go listen to a well-setup system.

And will, I think you'll be MORE pleasantly surprised at how superior the Paradigms will sound on music. I have some titans, along with some other paradigms, soon to be upgraded, not for lack of great performane, I just want MORE Posted Image. They are great! And have no doubts in your mind about that reciever. That is one NICE reciever.

Just remember to calibrate with Avia or VE and a radio shack SPL meter. A little investment that is WELL worth it. ESPECIALLY because then you can calibrate your video as well. Good luck! Posted Image

#52 of 61 NicholasL

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Posted July 30 2003 - 02:09 PM

I too, thought (and in some ways, have yet to be convinced otherwise) that Bose sucks that bad. I remember demoing the Lifestyle systems in a Bose store like RIck Ewing in a mall about 4 years ago (i was a senior in HS), where they had the little speakers hidden behind the large grills which they only reveal at the end, to which everyone goes "wow, all that sound from cubes?!" and i admit, i was one of those people. I mean come on, i know there are alot of you guys and gals out there who attended one of these 20 minute demos in the past.

my parents back in hawaii own the lifestyle 12 system, and i haven't been home in several years but from what i remember, they sounded great. it was only after joining this (and other, like klipsch and AVS) forums that i read how bad bose was. and it wasn't just opinion either, people were backing their claims with SPL measurements, charts, and other things that are as close to "proof" as it gets.

i guess since i'll be going home in a couple weeks i'll get a true chance to see if what i read is correct, or if i still think Bose isn't that bad. the strange thing is, if Bose indeed spends the most of any company of their advertising, and yet sound so bad, how do they come up with the means to promote themselves so strongly? they are not owned by a bigger parent company, and i don't think THAT many people can afford Bose (which to most people i know, consider it a high-end brand, since when i mention i own parasound units they're like "what?")

#53 of 61 ChrisWiggles

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Posted July 30 2003 - 02:20 PM

how do they come up with the means to promote themselves so strongly?


Because their profit margins are HUGE. MONSTROUS. GIGANTIC. You ever take apart one of their speakers? I did. Talk about cheap. No polyfill. CHEEEAP drivers, something they would identify as a tweeter, HARDLY. Hideous design, CHEAP materials and build quality sold at hugely inflated price=HUGE profit.

How then do they sell so many? Marketing smoke and mirrors coupled with an ingenious sales strategy that yields retailers with an also higher than normal profit margin and "perks" to salesmen who sell Bose products.

The people who live for (enslaved by more like it), Bose truly haven't heard of any real brands of speakers, let alone actually listened to them. Maybe they recognize some brands like JBL, klipsch, and the like, but not the high-end (NOT necessarily high priced brands) brands.

I played my paradigms for a fellow after he asked for what I thought about Bose "awesome new little cube speakers." He'd never heard of Paradigm before. Nor B&W. Nor NAD. Nor mark levinson. Nothing i mentioned he recognized, except Marantz.

#54 of 61 NicholasL

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Posted July 30 2003 - 02:28 PM

Agreed. Besides, the mass consumer probably isn't so into home theater that they spend their time chatting away about home theater on an online forum, so their knowledge would be extremely limited.

#55 of 61 Jaime B

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Posted July 30 2003 - 03:04 PM

Dr. Amar Bose found Bose in 1964 based on his innovative (then) concept of direct-reflecting sound. He hit it big with the 301, as I recall. Compact, affordable, and easy to manufacture at a low cost and respectably musical. While I was at Georgia Tech (1977-1980), I recall that a great deal of students had the 301. The 901 was the "Hi-End" model. So, they have been at it for a while now, with a different design and marketing approach (direct/reflecting sound, relatively compact and affordable speakers - back then).
Later, they came out with the tiny, unobtrusive and easy on the eyes (very high wife acceptance factor) AM series and it, as we all know, has become a HUGE sales success, along with the impressive (and now famous) marketing that has been implemented for so many years!
But that is not all, the Bose Co. a few years back came out with the super cute "bold sound" Acoustic Wave Radio, and wammo, instant mega sales.
In the year 2002, I believe, Bose sold about (I believe)$1,200,000,000.
That's $1.2 BILLION in total sales.

Like I mentioned in another post, Dr. Bose's success formula probably is required study at some business schools. Besides, Dr. Bose also teaches at MIT where he earned his degree.

Quite an enviable and admirable lifetime achievement!!!

JaimeB

#56 of 61 ChrisWiggles

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Posted July 30 2003 - 04:20 PM

Posted Image

#57 of 61 JessPrice

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Posted July 30 2003 - 06:21 PM

My parents bought a wave radio sometime last winter. They KNOW that I love stereos, and I ask them every week to let me design a system for them, be it the TV or their radio, but no, they never listened to me. I was off at college and even though I beg them to come to me if they are going to buy anything remotely related to speakers and such, they ignored my help and bought the damn wave radio without even telling me until i came home for the summer. Really pissed me off. I guess they are happy with it, they complain about the reception though. I am not going to brust their bubble over it.

#58 of 61 EricSm

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Posted July 30 2003 - 07:10 PM

Bose can indeed sound decent in some situations compared to a few alternatives. They are certinally a step up from boom boxes and tv speakers.


...lol.

#59 of 61 NicholasL

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Posted July 30 2003 - 09:20 PM

I feel bad for those who own and are happy with their bose products, and are quietly reading these threads. it's weird, but the opnions of others (even if we don't know them personally) really do affect the way we view/hear our products. but i don't know, i still have yet to prove to myself that bose isn't that great...cause from what i remember they sounded pretty good.

and what about the displays in bestbuy where there is a small tv and then the bose cubes are suspended around you in a 5.1 setup via metal arms or wires or whatever. those sound pretty decent to me.

#60 of 61 DaveGTP

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Posted July 31 2003 - 01:29 AM

From what I recall hearing, Nicholas, the speakers are not allowed to be demoed in a closed area with the other speakers (think the Circuit City speaker room) because they don't sound nearly so great. They are only allowed to be demoed in a wide open area.

I have a Bose 8-speaker 'premium' setup in my Grand Prix. It is definitely a lot better than the AC Delco stuff that comes stock. However, $1500 better? Hell no - I got the car used, so someone else paid the top dollar for it.
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