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Song of the South


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#41 of 260 Brian Kidd

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Posted July 13 2003 - 02:42 AM

It is contained in one of the Disneyland television shows on the second disc. I can't recall which one right offhand. I'll try and look at the disc later today and find out.
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#42 of 260 MatthewLouwrens

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Posted July 13 2003 - 10:11 AM

Quote:
I have never seen the film. But, I find it interesting that for a movie and characters that are supposed to be taboo. Disney based a ride (Splash Mountain) on it.
I agree. That makes no sense.

Quote:
If that's such a problem, they can release it as a collector's title, targeting an older, more-aware audience.
I have heard it suggested several times that it should be in the Treasures line. I agree.

There's a good discussion about the film, and the issues under it, in this page at Snopes.
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#43 of 260 Robert Harris

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Posted July 14 2003 - 03:54 AM

Removed by RAH.

This post was filled with errors and has been summarily executed.

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#44 of 260 Clinton McClure

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Posted July 14 2003 - 04:16 AM

Something I've always been curious about.... If Song of the South is considered racist and un-PC in today's society and should never see the light of day, then how is Spike Lee still able to release his shit year after year? Maybe if Uncle Remus swore every other word and was sick and tired of being hassled by the man, our twisted society could see this as artistic integrity and not a subversive attempt to slander and stupify a race? Posted Image

Really, I'm sick of political correct people and wish they'd shut up and take their toys to the other side of the playground so I can watch just one classic film unaltered "for the sake of PC".

(Disclaimer: No social activists were harmed during the making of this post.)

#45 of 260 Antony Jackson

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Posted July 14 2003 - 04:32 AM

It was shown on TV in the UK on BBC2 at the end of April, I recorded it onto DVD via the Panasonic recorder and would love to share with US fans.

Darn copyright laws .... Posted Image

#46 of 260 Jeff Jacobson

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Posted July 14 2003 - 04:52 AM

Quote:
The film apparently occurs in the antibellum years following the Civil War.

Which means that Uncle Remus and others portrayed were no longer slaves, but rather free workers or sharecroppers.


Very interesting. I thought that the main complaint about this movie was that it portrayed "happy slaves". But that isn't even true!

I bet that most of the people that complain about SotS haven't even seen the movie themselves. They just hear that it's "racist", then complain about it rather than see for themselves. (Well, they can't really see for themselves since it's not readily available.)

#47 of 260 Brandon Conway

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Posted July 14 2003 - 05:06 AM

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(Well, they can't really see for themselves since it's not readily available.)


And there lies the great problem - the longer it goes unseen, the bigger the idea of its racism grows.

"And now the reprimand, from an American critic. He reproaches me for using film as a sacred & lasting medium, like a painting or a book. He does not believe that filmmaking is an inferior art, but he believes, and quite rightly, that a reel goes quickly, that the public are looking above all for relaxation, that film is fragile and that it is pretentious to express the power of one's soul by such ephemeral and delicate means, that Charlie Chaplin's or Buster Keaton's first films can only be seen on very rare and badly spoiled prints. I add that the cinema is making daily progress and that eventually films that we consider marvelous today will soon be forgotten because of new dimensions & colour. This is true. But for 4 weeks this film [The Blood of a Poet] has been shown to audiences that have been so attentive, so eager & so warm, that I wonder after all there is not an anonymous public who are looking for more than relaxation in the cinema." - Jean Cocteau, 1932


#48 of 260 Joshua Moran

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Posted July 14 2003 - 05:17 AM

You know I've never figured out what people say is racist in the film. Looks like none of you have either. I always thought maybe its the tar baby. But no one here has mentioned that. I never even thought of the black people in the film as slaves. They were just workers. Since most of the film takes place as Remus telling a story I can't seem to figure out what is racist in the film. Maybe its the segregation. This whole thing is just dumb. There is nothing wrong with the film.

#49 of 260 Reagan

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Posted July 14 2003 - 05:46 AM

Joshua,

Go to

http://www.metrobeat......oid=oid:1811

where you can find a well-written (not knee jerk reactionary) account of the problems that people have with movie.

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#50 of 260 Ted Todorov

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Posted July 14 2003 - 06:13 AM

Quote:
how is Spike Lee still able to release his shit year after year? Maybe if Uncle Remus swore every other word and was sick and tired of being hassled by the man, our twisted society could see this as artistic integrity and not a subversive attempt to slander and stupify a race?

Really, I'm sick of political correct people and wish they'd shut up and take their toys to the other side of the playground so I can watch just one classic film unaltered "for the sake of PC".
What shit would that be? The 25th Hour?

And while we are at it, what are these altered for the sake of PC classic films??? Preston Sturges, Buster Keaton, Frank Capra, Ernst Lubitch have had their films altered???

So far as the Song of the South is concerned, Disney should just sell the rights to Criterion for a nominal sum, and get it over with -- we'll have a great DVD, and Michael Eisner & co. can go back to trying to negotiate a new Pixar contract Posted Image

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#51 of 260 Aaron Silverman

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Posted July 14 2003 - 07:16 AM

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The film apparently occurs in the antebellum years following the Civil War.


Not to be nit-picky, but "antebellum" means pre- Civil War.

I think that the source of the theme park ride is the fact that some of the music from the film is very well-known, despite the obscurification of the film itself.
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#52 of 260 Dennis Nicholls

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Posted July 14 2003 - 07:20 AM

I thought RAH was being funny - there was a lot of "antebellum years" attitude following the Civil War...
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#53 of 260 DavidNighorn

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Posted July 14 2003 - 07:47 AM

The ride at WDW, one of my wife's favorites, is not just about the songs. Each of the main animated characters has a speaking part - complete with stereotypical accents. Given that most of the young folks have never seen the movie, it seems inconsistent to faithfully preserve some of the parts that the naysayers might find objectionable.

Full Disclosure: I love the ride. I saw this movie when I was a very young child and was not able to fully comprehend it. I'd love to own this movie and see it again.

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#54 of 260 Robert Harris

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Posted July 14 2003 - 09:19 AM

I stand corrected and will simply eliminate my earlier posts.

The last thing I wish to do is confuse the issue.

The original NY Times review speaks of it as being Antebellum...

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#55 of 260 Clinton McClure

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Posted July 14 2003 - 09:45 AM

Maybe I wasn't exactly clear Ted. I'm against chopping up a movie to make it "PC friendly" period. I wasn't meaning all older films have been reworked...I guess I should have worded my phrase a bit differently. It should be up to parents whether they want their kids to see the movie, not Eisner.

But seriously, with all the pure steaming piles of crap released today which are hundreds of times worse than Song of the South could dream of being, then why is there such an outcry that it's unfit to be seen because of the themes it suggests? PC people piss me off.

#56 of 260 Rob W

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Posted July 14 2003 - 01:32 PM

Selling this film to Criterion or anyone else will not solve Disney's problems . This film is indelibly identified as a Disney production and any complaints will still go straight to Disney despite any other branding on the cover. The general public has no concept or reason to care about video licensing rights. And, despite Criterion's somewhat upscale marketing and target audience, the DVD will still find it's way into thousands or rental stores.

I would still like to see it released, but Disney will gain nothing by licensing it out elsewhere.

#57 of 260 Paul Penna

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Posted July 14 2003 - 01:55 PM

My guess is that if all the hoo-roar surrounding the release of this film were to magically evaporate, it would mainly be seen as quaint, and I don't mean that in a negative sense. Much of what some criticize as "stereotyping" is really archaic to the average person today. Even the "tar baby;" is that term in anything remotely like common parlance today? Even in the early 50s, when I was first exposed to the term in Little Golden Book versions of the Br'er Rabbit cartoon segments, I just took it literally, a little decoy made out of tar. Maybe in the South at that time the term would have been understood, but today? Similarly, the other stereotypes seen (or rather, no longer seen) in cartoons of the period, like watermelon-eating and shooting dice. Would most people today even know they were stereotypes unless someone told them?

#58 of 260 Malcolm R

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Posted July 14 2003 - 01:58 PM

the DVD will still find it's way into thousands or rental stores.

That's why it should be released as part of the "Treasures" line. I haven't seen any of those in any rental shop.
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#59 of 260 Tomoko Noguchi

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Posted July 14 2003 - 02:07 PM

Can you imagine how fast this would sell out if or when it is for sale in Japan?

#60 of 260 Jeff Jacobson

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Posted July 14 2003 - 03:05 PM

Thanks for the link to the article, Reagan.


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