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DLP or LCOS ???


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15 replies to this topic

#1 of 16 Rob Dee

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Posted June 28 2003 - 01:09 PM

I've narrowed my choices to either the Samsung DLP HLN507W w/ 1 year warranty for $3,849.00 or the LCOS RCA L50000 w/stand and 2 year warranty on the light engine for $3,599.00

Does anybody have any one of these RPTVs???

I like the RCA LCOS cause it's got built in HDTV and DirectTV/HD decoders (not to mention about $400 less)

I saw the Samsung DLP at my local Circuit City and it totally blew away the plasmas that were next to it. The problem is I don't see the RCA LCOS on the Scenium website.

Is the L50000 being discontinued???

BTW they are both 50 inch sets

PLEASE HELP!!! Posted Image

#2 of 16 Daniel T.

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Posted June 28 2003 - 06:34 PM

I have the 507 DLP. Love it, simple as as that. Tight pic, and seems to do okay during the day. Picuture is fantastic, I watched T2 today(thru a comp with DVI, so's to get the full on "extreme DVD" pic), and I was impressed. LCOS is pretty nifty for sure. I dunno what to say really. Besides I have a DLP set myself, LCOS is a better tech for sure, response times have to be superior.

Go and demand a side-by-side, I mean yer gonna drop 4+k on the setup, make em work for it. I picked DLP for longevity and the images I saw at the point of sales. Dropped pixels? That apply to liquid cyystal on silicone or what? That might be a consideration. Check out the black, LCOS is supposed to have some sweet black compared to "RPTV". You gotta tough choice. Hope I didn't muddy the waters.
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#3 of 16 Allan Jayne

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Posted June 29 2003 - 05:33 AM

Can't make your decision for you, but, DLP gives darker blacks (more contrast) than LCOS which in turn is better than LCD.

LCOS works the same way as LCD except that the liquid crystals for LCOS are atop a mirror and light from the projector lamp passes through them twice. This is what gives the better contrast.

But DLP display elements are so much more expensive that each TV set has just one of them and a color wheel, while LCOS sets have three elements each. Having the DLP element alternate between red, green, and blue content leads to rainbowy fringes on subject matter moving in certain directions across the screen, some viewers notice it more than others.

I would expect that LCOS and DLP are equals when it comes to dropped pixels.

Video hints:
http://members.aol.c...ynejr/video.htm
.

#4 of 16 JimmyA

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Posted June 30 2003 - 03:17 AM

I made a quick stop yesterday at a store to checkout the Samsung DLP TV's. They initially had an aquarium playing from a computer - makes a great $3,800 16x9 monitor.

I asked to see some video feeds, and the salesman showed me a DVD of 13 days. I haven't seen this movie, so I didn't have a way to compare how it looked on the Samsung vs. my TV. He was using a Samsung DVD player that had both the DVI as well as the Component connections to the TV. The DVI interface was extremely clean, from what I could tell. When he switched to 480p/component, however, I noticed considerable flickering and pixelation. I don't know if it was due to the DVD player or the TV, but based on the short demo I saw yesterday, I wasn't impressed with the 480p quality (which is what I would have, since I have a new DVD player and won't plop down the money for a new one with DVI interface). The analog quality on my current 11-year-old 27" tube is better than the 480p quality I saw on the Samsung DLP. I am very impressed with the overall quality of the 507, and hope that the quick demo I saw wasn't indicative of the performance of the set, because I think the DLP technology is the best price/performer today.

#5 of 16 Mike Bryant

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Posted June 30 2003 - 03:46 AM

I would not recommend considering the RCA LCoS set since it is an orphaned product. What reviews I've read of that set were not positive.

You should take a look at the new Philips and Toshiba LCoS sets that are coming out this summer. The Philips sets are a single chip design while the Toshiba are 3 chip designs. Note that 1 chip designs can create a visual artifact called "rainbows".

#6 of 16 Rob Dee

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Posted June 30 2003 - 07:53 AM

Thanks for the input so far...more would be welcomed Posted Image

#7 of 16 Stephen Tu

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Posted June 30 2003 - 11:50 AM

Agree fully with Mike Bryant; avoid the orphaned RCA, wait for the Philips & Toshiba sets. RCA will also release a DLP model. These sets probably won't come out until late August/September though.

#8 of 16 Paul.Little

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Posted June 30 2003 - 11:57 AM

I wouldn't buy any of those products over a CRT based RPT unless space was the most important consideration you have. For picture quality, I don't think you can beat the Pioneer Elite RPTs.
Paul

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#9 of 16 Richard Paul

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Posted June 30 2003 - 05:35 PM

Rob, Toshiba will be releasing the 57HL83 this fall, which is a 57" 1080p LCOS display. The price for this is $5,500 which is far less than the $9,000 price for last years 57" LCOS. It is more expensive than either of the options you mentioned but it could easily be the best looking RPTV of the year. The Toshiba is the only LCOS RPTV I know with a three chip design and will therefore have no rainbow effects. All other LCOS RPTV's have a resolution of 720p and one LCOS chip. The reason one chip designs for LCOS and DLP create rainbow effects is because they require the chip to do all three colors. Though this causes visual artifacts it is cheaper than using three chips for each color. The LCOS chips are apparently cheaper to make since even $10,000 DLP's have only one chip.

Just in case you don't know 1080p is 1080x1920 while 720p is 720x1280. This means that 1080p has over twice the number of pixels as 720p. Most HDTV's can do 1080i which looks worse than 1080p but is much easier for CRT's to do. This is because a interlace display only displays half of the image per 60th of a second. A progressive display has to display the entire image every 60th of a second.

#10 of 16 Steven Sims

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Posted July 01 2003 - 07:46 PM

Another good thing about the Toshiba 57HL83 is that it isn't part of the Cinema Series anymore, which should mean wider availability and better pricing. I can almost guarantee prices will be well below $5500 for this set once it hits stores.

#11 of 16 Paul Anthony

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Posted July 02 2003 - 04:06 AM

Personally, I would wait for the next generation of displays. I seriously don't think they are perfected yet (Mike mentioning the chip is pretty accurate), and if you're going to pay that much money, you don't want to have problems down the line. But that's JMHO, but if you gotta have it, I know what you mean. Posted Image

#12 of 16 DanS

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Posted July 02 2003 - 07:01 AM

Hey Rob - am in same spot. Been pretty sold on the HLN507 or the HLN565 for about a month - but can't drop $3999 yet. So I'm still looking and reading a lot of Forums.

TOO MUCH INFORMATION!!!

Bottom line is I think Paul is right - if we buy Samsung DLP's today, in 18 months we will be wishing we had the extra grand we dropped on this generation for DVD's.

Here's why I think so. . .

I just offered my local Best Buy $3400 neat for the Samsung HLN565 on a whim, and they went for the deal without hesitation. Bluff called, I backed my big mouth out of the store and considered what just happened - I think that deal was way too easy.

Then I also watch mostly 4:3 SDTV (no cable HDTV in Alb, NM until year end) and will probably continue to do so for a while. SDTV on DLP is not great by most accounts. However, comments on a new Phillips LCoS with Pixel Plus technology indicate SDTV looks pretty good on these sets.

There is a lot of info, (owners manuals, etc.) at http://www.p4c.philips.com/ about the new 44 and 55" Cineos LCoS Monitors that are lighter and less expensive than the Samsungs. Not many people out there have seen one yet.

Other note on the Thompson LCoS that is apparently for sale at Costco - it is going to be very hard to impossible to get maintenance and replacement parts - it's been abandoned.

Costco does carry a lot of Phillips products, so maybe they will pick up the LCoS line.

This is a LOT of time we spend on this single purchase, but there is a fair amount of money involved. And the whole RPTV/DLP/LCD/LCoS market is very volatile right now with major changes happening within the next 6-8 months.

So I am working hard at restraint ('cause we already bought the new furniture and everything, know what I mean?).

Thanks, this rambling helps get the gimme out of my system.

Hope to learn more here as we go.

DanS
"You can't fool me, there ain't no Sanity Clause"

#13 of 16 Rob Dee

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Posted July 02 2003 - 03:08 PM

Thanks for the informative replies...looks like I'll be waiting (patiently) for a few months more.

#14 of 16 Gregg Loewen

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Posted July 02 2003 - 03:15 PM

i tried to calibrate an RCA LCOS a couple of days ago...I recommended that the client return it. Posted Image Posted Image

best wishes

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#15 of 16 Richard Paul

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Posted July 02 2003 - 09:28 PM

Gregg, I understand your giving a warning but before anyone takes it to heart think about this. Someone encounter's a horrible CRT display and warns you not to buy it, do you A. Not buy that display, or B. Never buy another CRT display. The RCA model which is the 50" L50000 may be a good example of how not to make a LCOS display. The Toshiba LCOS on the other hand was given positive reviews in all the home theater magazines that reviewed it. I am curious to what was wrong with the RCA since at $8,000 it definitely isn't cheap.

#16 of 16 Gregg Loewen

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Posted July 04 2003 - 03:21 AM

My client purchased the RCA L50K at Sams Club for around $3500.

black levels were barely gray, no cuts and drives in the service menu (that I could find), closest color temp preset had the blacks green and the whites purple. Then there was the red push.

Im sure Toshiba will do a better job at any set they design / release...I am merely recommending NOT purchasing the RCA product.

regards

gregg

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