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newbie: SPEAKER WIRES


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#1 of 38 emile engel

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Posted June 22 2003 - 11:21 PM

Hi there, fairly new to HT

Got a yamaha rx430 receiver with Yamaha NSP 230 speaker package with active 50w sub.

Speakers came complete with speaker wires.

Would like to know if i should replace these wires, and if there will be any improvement in my sound.

Any suggestions as to what wire to use. The speakers have these spring loaded clips so i imagine the size cable that i can use is limited. The sub is connected to the receiver lfe connector via a single rca cable, fairly thin. Should i replace this as well?

#2 of 38 JamieS

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Posted June 23 2003 - 02:52 AM

Short answer

YES

Long answer: Many people have vastly different oppinions about cables. Some say they hear no difference between Home Depot wire 12 gauge and 1000 wires. Others swear you MUST match your wires and speakers.

Given that you have consumer grade gear (not $10,000 audiophile gear) and a 50 W sub I would say you are pretty safe with any decent wire. However the wires that came with your system are probably very cheap and could be very thin also. Depending on how long your wires need to be I'd just go to Home depot or whereever and buy some 14 GA speaker wire cut it to length and enjoy. 12 GA or thicker may not fit in spring clips and you won't notice a differnce. You may or may not notice a differnce in sound but for the 20-30$ you spend it will last longer be less prone to breakaage etc. As for the sub cable you don't need expensive I'd just get something sturdy to preven breakage.

#3 of 38 John Garcia

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Posted June 23 2003 - 02:56 AM

I'd recommend Monster XP, which is about 14ga (actually a bit smaller I think, but that is not that important). Decent wire for the price, and should work fine for the speakers in question. Runs about $30 for a 50' spool.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#4 of 38 JamieS

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Posted June 23 2003 - 03:09 AM

Don't waste your money on 14 GA moster speaker wire.

I can't find pricing on your system but I would be surprised if it was more than $400-500 US. you can buy wire that is just as good (sound the same just as tough) from a bulk store for 1/4 the cost. Monster is a rip off I would challange anyone to hear a differnce in Monster 14 GA and other 14 GA in a less than $500 system.

#5 of 38 JohnnyCorona

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Posted June 23 2003 - 04:58 AM

The higher guage wire the better, in other words FAT wires ROCK!!

But dont waste your money on monster cables. I have tested them, and when using 1 speaker with it, and one with a generic cable with some gauge size... there is NO difference!!!

PS, I worked for United Artists Theater Corp, and they don't use "Monster" Cables, so why should we?


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#6 of 38 John Garcia

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Posted June 23 2003 - 08:07 AM

FAT wire is great for a lot of POWER, but we are talking about SIGNAL. Fat cable, likely with a higher strand count, encourages "smear", which is disortion from the interaction of separate strands of wire. "Basic" wire does not use a dielectric core. Even the cheap Monster XP uses a center dielectric that keeps the copper on the outside, where the signal mainly travels.

Everyone hears different things, if you know what you are listening for, the differences are more obvious. I can hear the difference between cheap wire and decent wire, which is why I am using Audioquest solid bi-wire for my 2ch system.

Someone like UA wouldn't need to use Monster, because they can get as good or better for less...not a surprise there.

Quote:
I would challange anyone to hear a differnce in Monster 14 GA and other 14 GA in a less than $500 system.

I agree with this 100%, but it doesn't hurt anything to have the cable now, and upgrade components later, especially since this type of wire is CHEAP and readily avaiable.

An alternative would be a spool of 14 or 16ga Sound King OFC from www.partsexpress.com
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#7 of 38 Ernest Yee

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Posted June 23 2003 - 03:57 PM

I would just like to add that you should get some "decent" wire like generic 12ga to replace that crappy thin wire that you have. Everyone will probably agree w/ that statement. As for more exotics, just make sure you get your priorities straight. Replacing your HTiB speakers w/ a quality set will make EONS of difference vs using your current speakers w/ Kimber Kable or Nordost.

#8 of 38 KrishnaP

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Posted June 23 2003 - 08:26 PM

check out local RadioShack for speaker wires or placs like Target. I spend quite a bit on TaraLabs speaker wires and been using them for 5 years. Just recently, I purchased Radioshack speaker wire to test the difference as the builder for my new house is going to use some HomeDepot cable for in-wall wiring and believe me I found no difference. I felt so bad that I've been robbed couple of 100s by the sales guy who sold me into getting these cables when i got my Paradigm speakers.

But, the audio interconnects sure made difference when i replaced the ones that came with the receiver with the $30 interconnects I purchased.

#9 of 38 ScottRCapt

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Posted June 23 2003 - 09:43 PM

You’re getting a load of answers here...

I don't know if you can handle the overload of one more?

But I am on the side of spending money wisely!

Go to Home Depot. And remember, Home Depot has two different aisles where they sell speaker wire. One aisle has all of the other speaker wire and HT connectors and coaxial connectors and such...

But if you walk around to the other side (usually) in where they sell the bulk cable and romex that electricians use. You will find that they have spools of 12Ga and 14Ga wire over there as well!

It is super cheap price and very good quality! It's what electricians who pre-wire homes for Home Theater use. I bought a 250' spool of 12 Gauge copper speaker wire for $35.00. That was about 9 months ago in Florida, can't guarantee the price now, but I guarantee it will be lower than anywhere else you go! And you never know when that extra speaker wire will come in handy! New speakers? New placement of speakers? Go for it!

About the Subwoofer, You will most likely replace that in less than a year. I suggest you just go to Best Buy every once in awhile and look at the audio cable aisle; you want a real "Subwoofer cable". If you keep an eye out at Best Buy, you can usually find one that has been opened and returned, and then marked down. When you buy one make sure you install it with the arrows going the right way!

I am not a "Monster Cable" Or "Monster Wire" fan. I am one who thinks it’s all phooey... And I have a pretty good system. So buy what you need!

A wire never impressed anyone, except the guy who sold it to you!
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#10 of 38 John Garcia

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Posted June 24 2003 - 06:58 AM

1) If cables really made no difference, there would be no market for them.

2) I was of the camp that did not believe, until I spend a LOT of time comparing and critical listening. It DOES make a difference.

3) Interconnects will make a bigger difference than speaker wire.

I too will not spend money unless I feel it is well spent.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#11 of 38 RichardHOS

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Posted June 24 2003 - 08:21 AM

I hate to further drag this thread off-topic, but I can't resist the urge to reply to such a nicely bulleted list. Posted Image
Quote:
1) If cables really made no difference, there would be no market for them.
There's a huge market for magnetic bracelets and boutique bottled water as well. If you can make money from it, there will be a market. Nothing else matters... especially objective quality.

Quote:
2) I was of the camp that did not believe, until I spend a LOT of time comparing and critical listening. It DOES make a difference.
Critical? Hmm... blind? Double blind? What other conditions? How many trials?
Quote:
3) Interconnects will make a bigger difference than speaker wire.
Woot! I agree with that, despite what many might claim. Interconnects, depending on what you're connecting, might have some impedance requirements, and the shielding needs to be effective since it's easier to introduce noise into low level signals, and that noise will be subsequently amplified. Speaker cable just needs to be of adequate gage... it's really that simple.

#12 of 38 JohnnyCorona

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Posted June 24 2003 - 08:25 AM

one more thing...

most of the material that fancy cables use do indeed increase the sound that can get through them, for example, gold plated connectors do conduct better, the PROBLEM is that these frequency's cannot be heard by the human ear.

As my electronic professor says it best "Buy the expensive cables, your dog will love you for it!"


Johnny

#13 of 38 John Garcia

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Posted June 24 2003 - 09:51 AM

We aren't talking about morons, pardon me, gullible, who buy magnetic bracelets or water with a fancy name. I'd like to believe that many of those who frequent this board are interested in more than the average joe.

Critical, in terms of subjectivity, not TECHNICAL, analytical measurements. I figured since I just put this system together, I'd try it out with cheap wire (Monster) and picked up some Audioquest type 4 solid bi-wire just for the sake of testing to appease myself (meaning I was skeptical already), just to compare. I left each config for 2+ weeks, running all day while I was at work. After their respective "break-in" periods, I listened to specific tracks that I am familiar with, focusing on particular aspects of the song, and I could hear a difference. Was it worth the price difference? Perhaps not, certainly not for everyone, but now that I already paid for the wire ($30), I figure I will just leave it. The point is, as a skeptic by nature, I had to admit, there was a subtle change in the sound. Don't forget, this is an OPINION.

Quote:
As my electronic professor says it best "Buy the expensive cables, your dog will love you for it!"

I can't always take someone else's word, just as I don't expect anyone to take mine without a grain of salt. If it bugs me enough, I will go out at least attempt to find out for myself.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#14 of 38 Jason.Soko

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Posted June 24 2003 - 11:27 AM

Since when is Monster "cheap". What do you call Soundking wire, ghetto?
Cambridge Audio D500SE
SimAudio Moon I-5
Totem Acoustics Forest

#15 of 38 John Garcia

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Posted June 24 2003 - 05:26 PM

If the shoe fits...Posted Image I don't think there is anything special about Sound King wire. Carrol Silver coated cable would be better, but I didn't see it listed on PE any more. It is likely only a modest step above what you can get at Home Depot. I've always considered Monster "XP" and basic black Monster to be cheap.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#16 of 38 Earl Simpson

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Posted June 25 2003 - 12:47 AM

check these links for info!

http://www.hometheat....hreadid=140347

http://www.hometheat....hreadid=146608
HK7200
INFINITY SPEAKERS
YAMAHA 5940
SHARP 52" 1080P
Sony 46" 1080PPhillips 32" LCDSony 333ESSony PS3Toshiba A2Panasonic ES46VComputer Video card feed over HDMIetp

#17 of 38 Shane Martin

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Posted June 25 2003 - 02:01 AM

Jason,
Cheap is a relative term. A $50,000 audi would and could be constued as cheap to an Owner of a Bugatti.

Have I heard and Do I believe in the differences that wire makes? Yes.

Would I recommend a higher end wire to emile? NO.

Now with you being in South Africa, I'm not sure what options you have as to what to pick up. Monster maybe your best bet if you don't have some place like Home Depot or Radio Shack around. This is something I think everyone is overlooking. It's not like he's in NYC Posted Image

#18 of 38 emile engel

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Posted June 25 2003 - 02:18 AM

gents, thanx for all the advice.

we do have hardware shops selling 12 ga or as we call 3mm square wire which is the equavalent.
will be looking into it

but as i stay in SA, i have trouble with my pet tiger chewing up the cables hahah...

#19 of 38 mark alan

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Posted June 25 2003 - 02:25 AM

If you are in South Africa, I hope that it is a pet lion, not a tiger.

I personally think that hyenas make better petsPosted Image

#20 of 38 John Garcia

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Posted June 25 2003 - 02:37 AM

What also has not been discussed, and may not be relevent to the original poster, is that there are many other factors, besides interconnects, that will make a bigger difference than wire will. To me, speaker wire is the absolute LAST think one should be tweaking/experimenting with to achieve what they want from their system.

OK, the thread was linked by Earl Simpson, but let me just recapture the best comment from Matrice in one of them, because I agree with what he says:

Quote:
I think that the whole audio game is very subjective and really based on perception. With that in mind, I think the best advice that you've received in this thread is from Cliff Olson.

Everyone's system is not the same nor is the recorded music that they listen to the same either. All of us don't have the same room or setup skill level and we all don't have the same ears. Do cables in my system make a difference? Yes they have and they do. However, at what price point cables stop justifying the price of ownership varies from person to person so the short answer to your question is
to listen for yourself and see if it's worth the price because it is likely that none of the people who've responded to your question will be listening to your system anytime soon and I doubt if you will be listening to theirs.

** However, I do think before you go out and spend money on more EXPENSIVE cables you should feel confident that your system and room have been setup to play at it's best. Your system should sound pretty good with the cheapy 12ga. cable if your system has good synergy and your room has been acoustically treated. If your system is not put together properly to where all of the components are supported by the accompanying components and if the room has bad acoustics, I feel safe to say that no cable is going to help you much and you may even feel that you hear no difference in the cables that you use.

Hold on to your wallet and get the cheapo 12ga. cable FOR NOW. Go to the below site and type in "room acoustics" and read up on this most important but often ignored aspect of HT and then when you feel confident that you have addressed the most serious aspects of your system and room's performance you may want to try some more costly cables. It is the only way to really guarantee that what you are hearing is infact, what you are hearing.

HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 



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