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Attn B&K owners....question.


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15 replies to this topic

#1 of 16 OFFLINE   Dan Keliikoa

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Posted May 29 2003 - 03:01 AM

I have an AVR507 and love it, but I was hoping you could answer some questions about the speaker setup.

I have a 7.1 speaker configuration, with two surrounds and two back surrounds. What is the difference between speaker mode 6 and speaker mode 7?

The manual is a bit fuzzy to me on this...mode 6 evidently forces EX and ES, and the back surrounds run in mono...fine. But what is mode 7 doing? According to the diagram in the manual, it gets the back surrounds to work in some kind of stereo arrangement? How does it do this?

Also, is mode 7 actually playing EX soundtracks back in straight EX, or some kind 'enhanced' EX?

And for 5.1 material, is mode 7 giving you essentially TWO left surrounds and TWO right surrounds?

Both modes sound good, but which mode is neccessarily more 'right' (I'm thinking mode 6)?

Thanks for reading! I look forward to your thoughts and opinions Posted Image

Cheers,
Dan
"He is not Herbert. We reach!"

#2 of 16 OFFLINE   Terry.P

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Posted May 29 2003 - 06:50 PM

Mode 6 is your best bet. For 5.1 DD sources that have a EX flag it will derive a 6th channel just like in the old pro logic days with surround. Mode 6 is preferred method for DTS ES discrete and matrix also. This seems to work the best in most situations on my Ref. 50. Mode 7 is basically double surround from what I have experienced.

#3 of 16 OFFLINE   Adam Gregorich

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Posted May 29 2003 - 09:58 PM

I have a Reference 30 (a 307), and 6 is EX, 7 sends the same signal to both the side and rear speakers. Both speakers on the left are playing the same information, and both right speakers are playing the same information. So yes, you are correct, when you are listening to 5.1 sources in 7 mode, you are getting two sets of surrounds. In theory discs encoded in EX or ES SHOULD sound better in mode 6, while discs not encoded as such MAY sound worse. Let your ears be your guide...they will tell you which is "more right".

#4 of 16 OFFLINE   Dan Keliikoa

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Posted May 30 2003 - 03:07 AM

Thanks guys Posted Image

After reading your comments and staring hard at the manual some more, I understand the differences except for one question that remains: does mode 7 'bypass' EX, and instead just do the same thing it does with 5.1 DD which is dual left and dual right surrounds?

That point is confusing because DTS ES does seem to come up, even in mode 7....interesting.

One other question...do you guys prefer to use THX mode when watching movies?

Cheers,
Dan
"He is not Herbert. We reach!"

#5 of 16 OFFLINE   Adam Gregorich

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Posted May 30 2003 - 04:49 AM

I wouldn't say 7 mode bypasses EX, it just isn't EX. In 6 mode, the rear speakers are sent a single mono signal, while the L and R sides are sent the discrete signals. In 7 mode the L side and L rear are sent the same discrete signal and the R side and R rear are sent the same discrete signal. The Ref 30 that i have doesn't support DTS-ES (yet) so I can't comment on it. As to THX mode, I have found that some movies sound better with it, others without. Again, let your ears decide for you.

#6 of 16 OFFLINE   Terry.P

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Posted May 30 2003 - 05:52 AM

Quote:
That point is confusing because DTS ES does seem to come up, even in mode 7....interesting.


That is probably because the DTS ES source that your are playing is a true discrete 6.1. Depending on what version your 507 is, it can indicate what flavor of DTS-ES you are playing, "DTS DIS" or "DTS MTX". The receiver should process the surround backs in a 7.1 as one signal going to two speakers. DTS ES 5.1 matrix mixes and behaves very much the same way as does DD-EX. The rear channel is derived or extrapolated from the side surround signals and is not a true discrete channel.

#7 of 16 OFFLINE   Dan Keliikoa

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Posted May 30 2003 - 06:01 AM

Thanks Adam...good points all. And THX is a subjective thing; I was just wondering what you guys think. Also cool to see a local guy on the thread Posted Image

Terry, thank you for the further enlightenment...well explained! BTW, my 507 is version 1.03, and it does distinguish between ES discrete and matrix, and displays as such.

Cheers,
Dan
"He is not Herbert. We reach!"

#8 of 16 OFFLINE   Terry.P

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Posted May 30 2003 - 06:11 AM

Yep, I believe that ver. 1.03 is when they started displaying the different type of DTS-ES bitstreams. I'm at ver. 1.04. I asked for the differences between 1.03 & 1.04. B&K support said "none"!! Hence, the new version 1.04 Posted Image

#9 of 16 OFFLINE   Dan Keliikoa

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Posted May 30 2003 - 06:22 AM

Terry, on version 1.04, from another thread, our own Donnie Eldridge, HTF member: "I just got off the phone with B&K....asked about the change from V1.03 to V1.04 . According to the tech the change was strictly done internally to THX mode and nothing that will effect an end-user or be noticed."

So, nothing you would notice anyway. Posted Image

Cheers,
Dan
"He is not Herbert. We reach!"

#10 of 16 OFFLINE   Terry.P

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Posted May 30 2003 - 06:40 AM

I think that the position at B&K is that ver. updates are for users that have specific problems or issues. Since updates can not be downloaded by end users they do not want or need a update frenzy just for the sake of being on the latest & greatest when only 2% of install base would actually benefit from it. If you were updated from say version 1.00 to 1.04 it would require a new controller card also which can become pricey on B&K's side. Not to mention that it has to be performed at the dealer or at B&K. I wish they would provide s/w updates over the web to end users like Athem AVM-20 does. I'm not complaining but I do like to be in control of my domain.

#11 of 16 OFFLINE   Adam Gregorich

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Posted May 30 2003 - 10:58 AM

B&Ks software updates are on ROM chips, so it does require a card/chip change out. Whenever they get two or three revisions ahead of what I have I have my dealer get me the upgraded chip and swap it out with mine. Takes less than 5 minutes, undo the 4 faceplate screws, undo the 4 screws holding on the top, pull out the old card containing the ROM chip, put in the new card....Presto Chango! I do backup all my settings with their PC program over a serial cable to my laptop first, and restore them after the chip changeout. Always happy to help out a local Dan!

#12 of 16 OFFLINE   Dan Keliikoa

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Posted May 30 2003 - 11:10 AM

Yeah Adam...the ROM updates are really easy. I happen to work for a local retailer's service dept (PM or email me if you'd like to know who) so I can get the updates done easily at work Posted Image

Nice system you have, BTW!!!

Cheers,
Dan
"He is not Herbert. We reach!"

#13 of 16 OFFLINE   MatthewJ S

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Posted June 01 2003 - 04:00 AM

THX Ultra 2 in 5.1 soundtracks would be better in THX Surr 7 rather than 6 ? or no ?.....decorrelation? differant sounds from 6 & 7 speakers or would you run it in surr 6 to get it that way??????
that receiver sounds great demo'd through my computer speakers!

I bought the best ones, my buddy would never steer me wrong .He's not trying to make a commission off me and Cambridge Sound's factory direct pricing means that I got a great deal!

It must be a good deal all the people on the net...

#14 of 16 OFFLINE   Donnie Eldridge

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Posted June 01 2003 - 12:47 PM

Yep, I believe that ver. 1.03 is when they started displaying the different type of DTS-ES bitstreams.
Terry is correct on this one. I'm surprised this wasn't in an earlier version.

I also know B&K is currently trying to implement another major feature in a future update with its THX modes. The tech didn't want to go into much detail, because he didn't know when it was going happen.
Master Poe: Close your eyes. What do you hear?
Caine: I hear the water. I hear the birds.
Master Poe: Do you hear your own heart beat.
Caine: No.
Master Poe: Do you hear the grasshopper, which is at your feet.Caine: Old man, how is it that you hear these things?Master Poe: Young man, how is it...

#15 of 16 OFFLINE   Terry.P

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Posted June 01 2003 - 02:26 PM

Quote:
I also know B&K is currently trying to implement another major feature in a future update with its THX modes. The tech didn't want to go into much detail, because he didn't know when it was going happen.


Another?? What were major feature updates from past ref. 50 /507 versions? I would classify the DTS bitstream display as a minor update that has no bearing on sonics.

#16 of 16 OFFLINE   Donnie Eldridge

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Posted June 01 2003 - 02:35 PM

Let me rephrase that to "add a major feature to its THX modes" .
Master Poe: Close your eyes. What do you hear?
Caine: I hear the water. I hear the birds.
Master Poe: Do you hear your own heart beat.
Caine: No.
Master Poe: Do you hear the grasshopper, which is at your feet.Caine: Old man, how is it that you hear these things?Master Poe: Young man, how is it...





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