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Okay, I surrender. I am more than confused!


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#1 of 20 DaveAr

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Posted May 21 2003 - 11:10 AM

I found it easier to car shop than this. I am looking to put together my FIRST HT . Up until now I have only ever owned a stereo system, 2 satellite speakers and a sub. Infinty Infintessimal System, bought late 80's. Speakers and sub kind of gone, or on their way. Anyway I have a 14 1/2 X 13" room with 9" ceilings. The room is NOT totally enclosed, it is open into the kitchen area, separated by a 5' wide wall and a 56"w X 46"H glass block wall. This creates a 51" walkway. The other side has a glass sliding patio door.
I must stay w/in a budget under 2k, inclusive (speakers/Receiver). I have researched the following and now I am seeking wisdom from those MUCH more knowledgeable than I. Speakers :1) Axioms (M22ti, QS4, VP100, EP125) although I have read to shy away from their subs.
2)Aperion Audio 3)Ascends 4) KEF KHT 2005 5)Athena.
Or any other ideas welcomed.
Please note that the speakers need to be aesthetically pleasing as they will be on display.
The receivers I have looked into are:
1)HK AVR 525 2)Marantz SR7300(refurb) 3)Onkyo TXSR800 (refurb). 4)(least known about) Outlaw 1050
These all come in under 699.00
If I need to replace or add sub I need to stay w/in the 380 or so range (this is price of Axiom). SVS is out of my league, price and looks wise.
As far as the speakers, the fronts would be book-shelfs, the rears need to be placed on stands, cannot wall mount as there is one continuous wall from family room into kitchen.
I think I included all the nec. info. Now I seek your help, those that are well versed in this subject. I would like to make a decision by this weekend, as my new reclining sofa is due to be delivers in two weeks.
Oh by the way, which speaker wires would be suitable for this type of installation. I have read about wires anywhere from Home Depot thru a weeks salary for cables. Also, is it possible to use my existing cables from Acoustic Research for the new setup.
Sorry to be long winded, but there is a wealth of info needed here. Thanks in advance.:b :b Posted Image :b :b
The system would be used for both HT and music, maybe 60-40 HT. Music categ stems from Heavy Metal(me), rock/©rap (kids) thru Top 40(wife). Thought this might be imp!
The World is Full of Kings and Queens who Blind your Eyes and Steal your Dreams

#2 of 20 DaveAr

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Posted May 21 2003 - 01:49 PM

26 views, no input. I know it was a bit wordy, but there has to be light at the end of my tunnel, no?Posted Image
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#3 of 20 Michael Reuben

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Posted May 21 2003 - 03:58 PM

It's a lot of ask of people to evaluate your entire plan at one shot. You may want to consider breaking it down into separate topics. Ask about speakers in the Speaker forum, receivers in the Receiver forum, etc.

You might also want to use the search function to locate existing posts on the various brands you're asking about.

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#4 of 20 DaveAr

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Posted May 21 2003 - 04:30 PM

Thanks Michael. I thought it would be easier this way. I saw alot of people asking similar ques. thought I'd go a step further with room specs and all.
I have searched the diff reviews and forums, I guess that's where I got confused. I thought I'd pick the brains of those who started out like I am doing, and ended up audio experts.
I will keep reading, and perhaps someone will give some insight.
Thanks again
The World is Full of Kings and Queens who Blind your Eyes and Steal your Dreams

#5 of 20 John Garcia

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Posted May 21 2003 - 04:45 PM

OK, I just wrote a whole response, but it didn;t make it through...try again, a little compressed.

Axioms - good choice. They will handle all of the music listed fine. They should pair well with the receivers mentioned. I have no experience with the others, except KEF. The UNI-Q design makes for some exceptional imaging. I am not familiar with these particular speakers, but I have not heard KEFs that sounded bad.

Sub - in that price range, the Adire Audio Rava should fit the bill.

Receivers - any of these are a good choice in my book. I am a fan of Marantz, I have a 6200 in the main system, a SR4000 in a second system, and a PM7000 in my bedroom. I have not heard the Outlaw.

Speaker wire - nothing special is required when starting out, and with a system of this level. Speaker wire is the LAST thing I recommend using to tweak the sound of a system.

Interconnects is a different story; good interconnects are worth while, and the ARs you have now are probably fine.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#6 of 20 Clark F

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Posted May 21 2003 - 11:56 PM

Can you audition any of your choices at a local A/V store? As has been pointed out many times on these forums, the best choice is the one that sounds best to you.

#7 of 20 Bob McElfresh

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Posted May 22 2003 - 03:23 AM

Buy a spool of good 12 ga wire like the "Sound King" brand from www.partsexpress.com and use it for all your speakers.

If you run wires under the house for the rears, make sure to run 3 sets of wires to the rear. That rear-center speaker is becoming popular.

#8 of 20 Michael Reuben

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Posted May 22 2003 - 03:30 AM

Quote:
If you run wires under the house for the rears, make sure to run 3 sets of wires to the rear. That rear-center speaker is becoming popular.

I'd make it 4 sets, since THX recommends two speakers for the rear center channel and receivers with outputs for 7 channels are becoming more common.

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#9 of 20 Bob McElfresh

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Posted May 23 2003 - 02:52 AM

Two for the rear center... wow!

But my understanding is these are not descrete channels. This means the identical signal goes to each rear-center speaker - right?

#10 of 20 Michael Reuben

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Posted May 23 2003 - 03:03 AM

It depends on the receiver or pre/pro. In the most basic configuration, an identical signal is routed to two rear center speakers. With more elaborate proprietary modes (e.g., Logic7), the processor synthesizes separate rear channels.

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#11 of 20 DaveAr

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Posted May 23 2003 - 03:14 AM

If and when I finally gety thios project started, is it necessary, or smart thinking to utilize a Monster power source center. I have seen these and were not exactly sure of their use and intentions.
Anyone have any input on the Aperions or Ascends.
Now the Wife may "allow" the introduction of front floorstanding speakers as opposed to bookshelfs. This is becoming a bigger deal than I expected. I reiterate the opinion on car shopping. Thanks again, and I am still reading, reading, learning. I welcome all facts, endorsements of users and owners, and some opinions.
I'm not stupid, thsi subject only makes me appear as such!!Posted Image
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#12 of 20 Greg_R

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Posted May 27 2003 - 11:51 AM

Quote:
If and when I finally get this project started, is it necessary, or smart thinking to utilize a Monster power source center.
At this point I think your best use of money will be to spend it on quality speakers/sub and a receiver. Don't go spending $$$ on items that have little effect on sound quality. Get cheap zip cord for the speaker wires (12-16 gauge). Radio Shack (Gold) & AR make decent interconnects at a reasonable price. Plug your equipment into the wall (power conditioners are not needed, esp. given your budget).

If I had $2k to spend on a system, I'd spend $700 on a sub, $800+ on 5 bookshelf speakers (mains, rears, center) and the rest on a receiver and cables. Add the 6th/7th channel (rear center) when funds permit. I suggest bookshelf speakers because they tend to have better bang/buck in this price range.

#13 of 20 DaveAr

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Posted May 27 2003 - 01:53 PM

Quote:
If I had $2k to spend on a system, I'd spend $700 on a sub, $800+ on 5 bookshelf speakers

Thanks for the reply. I don't know enough at this point that I would/could follow that philosophy, besides I don't think I have the room size, or room to place a $700 subwoofer. Something of that magnitude I'm sure has alot of power, which WOULD DEF. be lost in my surroundings. Would not be able to fully utilize (wife,kids, etc.) to it's potential. But based on your other thinking, I am leaning towards an Axiom system, with FR: M22 bookshelfs CNTR: VP150(or VP100) Surr: QS4. I was looking into other subs also. I have seen the following, any sugg to go with the above?
1) Mordaunt Short MS308 8" (80w)..189.99 2) Any of the Acoustic Research line.... 109.00 - 199.00 3) Aperion Audio Intimus S-8APR 399.00
I would like to stay below 300.00 if possible.
I have read someone pairing the Velodyne VX-10 with these. Any ideas?
:b Thanks in advance.
Has anyone totally omitted their CD player from their rack in favor of using their DVD player for both audio / video?
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#14 of 20 John Garcia

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Posted May 27 2003 - 02:18 PM

The MS308 was not reviewed favorably, and it's specs are not all that impressive. I would skip it.

If you have a good DVD player, with decent DACs (if using analog), or you are less critical about music, then you can get away without a CDP. If you are discriminating about music, you will be looking at a few hundred dollars (~$250-500) for a decent player that will be good at both movies and music (consider the price of two less expensive components) Less expensive DVD players tend to not be quite so good with music.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

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#15 of 20 chun howe

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Posted May 28 2003 - 02:14 AM

you might want to consider NAD. yawaonline.com has refurbished. they have very good reviews. and it's fits your bill (only the refurb. & exclude T761)

i have auditioned KEF Q1, Energy C-3, NHT SB3, Paradigm Mini, B&W. NHT has the best imaging, clarity. they are acoustic suspension design though. the demo room couple with marantz SR7200.

i now own Monitor series. the reason i didn't go with NHT is the floorstander is too pricey (ST4) and needs more power to drive the speakers (Acoustic Suspension)

my suggestion is spend a little more on speakers as they make noticable difference.

NHT is glossy piano black. Energy connoisseur is very nice looking also. hookedontronics.com has C-3 for $358 + shipping. the grill is magnetically attached to the front bafel.

you might want to look into HSU VFT-2 for subwoofer.
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#16 of 20 DaveAr

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Posted May 28 2003 - 02:37 AM

Thanks for the replies. Another thread steered me to look at the Fluance line of speakers. Any referrals / opinions /thoughts. The Yawa line looks nice, but pricy. If I stayed this route I may go with the Axioms, unless i research the Fluance further.
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#17 of 20 John Garcia

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Posted May 28 2003 - 08:07 AM

I've never heard the Fluance, but I'd say stick with the Axioms. Fluance has a no return policy, in case you do not like them.

The NHT SB3 is an impressive little speaker, and the piano gloss cabinets are gorgeous, but it also has a price tag that goes along with that. The Paradigm Mini Monitors are very good, but I felt the Axiom M3Ti was more clear and neutral with music (both set to large, no sub) at just about $75 less.

Take a look at the Mordaunt Short MS300 package (no sub, though the picture shows it) at Accessories for Less.com. 4 302s and a matching center with no sub for $379+shipping is a pretty good deal. Then you can add a Rava or VTF-2 and end up with a nice little system for right around $800.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#18 of 20 Greg_R

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Posted May 28 2003 - 12:01 PM

Quote:
Thanks for the reply. I don't know enough at this point that I would/could follow that philosophy, besides I don't think I have the room size, or room to place a $700 subwoofer. Something of that magnitude I'm sure has alot of power, which WOULD DEF. be lost in my surroundings. Would not be able to fully utilize (wife,kids, etc.) to it's potential.
I suggested the more expensive sub to get you better sound quality. The cheaper subs just sound muddy and will be a detriment to the higher quality main speakers you're considering. I'd at least look at the Adire Rava or Hsu VTF-2 ($400-500 range). There is a huge difference in sound quality vs. the <$400 mainstream offerings.

Quote:
Has anyone totally omitted their CD player from their rack in favor of using their DVD player for both audio / video?
I have. I use my Pioneer DVD player as a CD transport and use the DACs in my receiver (Denon). Why spend $$$ on the same processing when you're only going to use one option?

#19 of 20 DaveAr

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Posted May 28 2003 - 02:27 PM

Thanks Greg, trying to get a handle on this whole sordid mess, at least for me. Another thread mentioned the COLOR=blue]Tannoy Mercury Speakers[/color] . Any thoughts / views? They look great but what does that mean......But I am also forced into aesthetically pleasing pieces.
As far as the cd player question, I have my DVD player now set as a second player, in my stereo system (able to utilize MP3 format).
Presently I have a Denon DCD 970 CD player. It's an oldie but still kicks. This is part of my Denon system. Also have a Denon DRA 835R receiver. These lasted a good 10-15 years. Any value to the receiver now? Anyone. Unless I just put it away and save it for my son for his room when he gets a little older.:b
Does anyone know if the Tannoy's are bright?Posted Image
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#20 of 20 MikeShea

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Posted May 30 2003 - 12:15 AM

Ascend Acoustics speaker packages all look very good and get a lot of high ratings from Audioreview.com. You can order them online at http://www.ascendacoustics.com/

A set of them can run between $1100 and $1400 depending on the speakers you choose, but includes an excellent Hsu VTF-2 subwoofer, my personal favorite right now.

The Onkyo TX-SR800 is a THX Select receiver that also gets excellent reviews. It gives you the option of going to a 7.1 setup.

This package can be picked up for just under $2000 if you shop well. It is a hell of a deal.

Other speaker selections include Boston Acoustics and B&W, two brands I've had a lot of good luck. At $1000 for speakers, you have a lot of options.

Good luck!
Mike Shea
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