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Unruly Group Gratuity Assessment?


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48 replies to this topic

#21 of 49 OFFLINE   Justin Lane

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Posted May 19 2003 - 08:35 AM

Quote:
Auto adding the 15% tip is BS ! A tip/gratuity is just that, a bonous for doing a good job. I do not get tips after fixing a computer for someone at work. A tip should never be included in the price of anything.


You do realize the hourly rate of pay for a waiter or waitress is only a couple of bucks, and their wages are made almost entirely on the tip. Unless you are getting paid two bucks an hour to perform computer repairs, no complaints please.

For the most part, I would hope a waitperson takes pride in their job, and is not purposefully trying to screw up your dining experience. A large group places stress on the waitperson and kitchen in coordination of food, and sometimes in seating accommandations. A restaurant is also in no way required to service a large group, so the guaranteed tip is a fair trade off.

In principle I agree that the tip should be a bonus that is based on the quality of service, but the system in our country is made up so the customers essentially pay the wages of the waitperson directly. This has positives and negatives, but ultimately it creates more jobs, and allows more restaurants to stay in business.

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#22 of 49 OFFLINE   Joe Szott

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Posted May 19 2003 - 08:49 AM

I believe the minimum that servers are paid in the US is $2.17 an hour, which means more than likely they ALL make $2.17/hr Posted Image They used to get minimum wage + tips but once the IRS figured out they were doing quite well, they instituted new policies. Now it is the $2 and change hourly and the restaurant tracks all their tips for the IRS.

Be nice to your waiting staff, they're more under the screws than you would expect.

#23 of 49 OFFLINE   Ted Lee

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Posted May 19 2003 - 08:49 AM

just some random thoughts.

my mom was a waitress her whole life (and my dad a cook) so i don't mind tipping at all.

unless they're truly stellar i rarely go above the standard 15%. however, if they stand-out, then they get my attention and a much larger tip. i think i once did about 30% because the service was so awesome.

automatic tips on large parties is okay with me...as long as i know about it. large paties are harder to handle and *do* require more work.

btw - if tips stood for "to insure prompt service" ... wouldn't that mean you're supposed to pay the tip up front? Posted Image

[edit] btw - what that waitress pulled is just plain wrong. i hope, at the very least, that she was scolded. the mgmt did the right thing by refunding your entire meal - otherwise you probably could have sued them for much more.
 

#24 of 49 OFFLINE   Richard Travale

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Posted May 19 2003 - 11:28 AM

Quote:
btw - if tips stood for "to insure prompt service" ... wouldn't that mean you're supposed to pay the tip up front? Posted Image

No, I take it as the waitress/waiter would be prompt and do a good job in hopes of getting a good tip. The prospect of the tip insures the prompt service.I guess it should be a "PoTIPS" then Posted Image

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#25 of 49 OFFLINE   Yee-Ming

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Posted May 19 2003 - 02:46 PM

we have an institutionalised "service charge" of 10% here, which was supposed to replace the concept of tips.

personally I think it's dis-incentivised (is that a word? Posted Image ) staff from trying harder, and we get a lot of indifferent staff in this country, e.g. I was at a friend's wedding dinner recently at a 5-star hotel, the dessert was a buffet (which is unusual) but there was no cutlery laid out at the buffet table, so I had to ask a waiter for some for my desserts. it never showed up, I got fed up waiting and wound up using my coffee spoon to eat my cake. but since it was a wedding dinner, there wouldn't have been any opportunity for us to show our displeasure since we weren't paying a bill at the end of the evening anyway.

the flip side is that since 10% is already included, I very rarely tip -- I suppose partly because I very rarely encounter exceptional service here that warrants it.

#26 of 49 OFFLINE   Bryan X

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Posted May 19 2003 - 03:36 PM

Quote:
The prospect of the tip insures the prompt service.I guess it should be a "PoTIPS" then


Actually that would be "to ENsure promptness". If it were "to INsure promptness" then we'd all pay a few dollars per month to an insurance company. Then in the event we have good service we could just submit a claim to the insurance company and have them pay the tip!

#27 of 49 OFFLINE   Chris Hovanic

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Posted May 19 2003 - 04:13 PM

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Unless you are getting paid two bucks an hour to perform computer repairs, no complaints please.


ummm no! I used that as an example. I pay my hard earned cash for a nice meal and agood service (as my employer pays me for a job well done). Therefore I have every right to complain when I get charged an extra 15% for poor service. Tips are a way of saying thanks for a great job serving me. I guess they need to come up with a better choice of wording... "Large Group Sur-Charge" and the employer give that to the wait-person.

I guess if you dont like serving large groups or serving people on sundays you should find a new job! Maybe computer support/administration. Or better yet open your own resturant and screw your wait-people and customers like all the other resturants do. Posted Image Posted Image
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#28 of 49 OFFLINE   Michelle Schmid

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Posted May 19 2003 - 05:42 PM

I've been a waitress off/on for several years. I actually love the job and make decent money at it. Most jerks I've had the "pleasure" of serving have apologized and left smiling, due to good service. I've had customers that would ask specifically for me, and would even wait for one of my tables to be available rather than have a different server. I rarely made under 20% for a total shift. However, all that being said, with pay at $2.13/hr (last time I waited tables), slow days w/few customers, and no insurance benefits makes it tough to live on, no matter how well you do percentage-wise. Just try affording basic health care or insurance w/o your employer kicking in the 2/3 they usually do!

Quote:
He insisted there was no way to redo the transaction without the automatic tip included, and in the end the waitress only got the mandated 15%.

Next time it happens, order a beverage or dessert to go. Add whatever tip you planned on leaving your server. Sure, you'll have two transactions on your statement, but the server will get what you feel she deserved.

Quote:
Does it matter. I would think a waiter/waitress serves about the same number of people whether they serve large groups or not.

Same number of people? Yes. Same job? No. More often than not large groups come in at the same time. Drinks for all promptly, not staggered as it would be for smaller, separate parties. Sometimes while you're bringing the final drinks, the first person gulped theirs and is ready for another. Run for more. Still have to take food orders, so . . . maybe four people are ready, while the other six wait 1/2 hr to decide because they're all busy talking. By the time you get the order in to the kitchen, the first four are pissed because it's taking so long. Um, yeah, 'cause the rest of the party wouldn't order! Orders are finally in, great, 'cause it's time for more drinks. Gotta get all the food to the table roughly at the same time, too, or some people will be finishing while others have barely started. Please, kitchen, pleeeaaassseee don't let the other servers take my plates while I'm delivering these--I know their table ordered the same thing, but this is for MY table and everything else is ready. I need to take this out! Just tell them they can't have it when you put it in the window. I'll be right back. Thanks! Um, yeah, large groups are exactly the same as smaller ones. Ha.

Quote:
If I saw a 15% clause on a menu it would be the last time I'd go there.

You must either not go out very often anymore, or have a really long list of places you refuse to eat. It's almost standard now for parties of 8 or more, and in some places its down to 6 or more.

Quote:
Most restaraunts that have this policy will not split checks for large parties.


Some will. Ask. However, most of them that do have the servers ring ALL the orders into the computer at once. This does auto-add the gratuity, BUT it also lets the kitchen know that it is a large party and all the food needs to come out at the same time. Otherwise they won't know (and they won't remember if you tell them--they have a lot of other things and servers to think about) that the Caesar Salad needs to be completed at the same time as the well-done T-bone, and not right away.

Yes, tip according to service, I always do, and I'm pretty critical, having done the job myself. But next time you go out look around. Are you the only table or is the server working on eight tables, three with small children? Yes, you are as important as they all are, but be realistic in your expectations. Can you perform all your computer repair requests at the same time? If yes, feel free to ignore everything I just said--and come work where I do! I'm sick of waiting three days for computer support to call back, let alone actually fixing the danged thing.

Quote:
Well when she comes and hands us our checks she tells us that she already put in 15% because she said we were smartasses and there is a law that states that you can do this if the people you're hosting are assholes


In all my years of waiting tables, from cocktail server to dinner house, from OR to UT to FL, I've never heard of anything like this. She must have wanted to get fired, because even if this law were true, I can't imagine she'd tell you that up front! You'd think she'd slip it in quietly and hope it would go unnoticed so then perhaps she'd get tipped twice (real tip already expected to be small, since you were smartass assholes and all--according to what you said, I really don't know--you might have been angelic). She'd have had to expect you to protest (assholes are prone to do that anyway!) so why tell you? Posted Image

#29 of 49 OFFLINE   Chris Hovanic

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Posted May 20 2003 - 02:35 AM

Quote:
Same number of people? Yes. Same job? No. More often than not large groups come in at the same time. Drinks for all promptly, not staggered as it would be for smaller, separate parties. Sometimes while you're bringing the final drinks, the first person gulped theirs and is ready for another. Run for more. Still have to take food orders, so . . . **deleted for length**.... Um, yeah, large groups are exactly the same as smaller ones. Ha.


Sounds like a management issue. Why not have two wait-people help the large party.... oh wait that would cut into their tip.

Seems to me that I would be better off eating at a place that pays thier employees a fair wage and does not require tipping. Just like the auto dealers/stores that do not pay their sales-people commision just a good fair salary.

What about thoes poor kids that wait on the same a-hole at McDonalds.... They dont get a tip and they dont get bennifits and the hardly make min. wage.

Michelle Schmid I would eat at the resturaunt you work at because you do the job.. and get tiped the way you should. No need to add the 15% because like you said "I rarely made under 20% for a total shift."
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#30 of 49 OFFLINE   Charles J P

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Posted May 20 2003 - 03:54 AM

I posted in the other tip thread, but I must say I have NEVER heard anyone bitch about pay so much as waiters. Do you know how many people out there make less than the average waiter after tip? Get over it or get a different job.

#31 of 49 OFFLINE   Chris Hovanic

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Posted May 20 2003 - 04:33 AM

Amen Brotha Posted Image
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#32 of 49 OFFLINE   Craig Robertson

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Posted May 20 2003 - 12:48 PM

Quote:
You do realize the hourly rate of pay for a waiter or waitress is only a couple of bucks

Quote:
They used to get minimum wage + tips but once the IRS figured out they were doing quite well, they instituted new policies. Now it is the $2 and change hourly and the restaurant tracks all their tips for the IRS.

the amount per hour is totally dependant on the state. here in Oregon, minimum wage is $6.90, NO exceptions. the least waitstaff can earn is minimum wage plus tips, if any. we have the highest minimum wages in the country and also the highest unemployment... go figure.

#33 of 49 OFFLINE   Devin U

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Posted May 20 2003 - 06:40 PM

I do understand the 15% added gratuity for large parties. I dont mind it, as I go as a group maybe once or twice a year. Last time, we went to Buca di Beppo w/ about 20 people, and had one server dedicated just to us, and others that helped. the service was so good, he got another 15% on top of the 15% gratuity on a $400 bill. As for pay, I know alot of waitstaff here, and even at 2.13/hr+tips, they still average over $10/hr, not counting the cash tips they "misreport" or "forget about". as for a manditory 10% on the bill, forget it. Ill never eat at your place. Also, if I leave a cash tip and pay with my card, I allways line out the tip amount on the credit card. A guy I worked with had a waiter add themselves a 50% tip because he forgot to line out the space. watch that, as Ive hard of waitstaff altering tip amounts on CC reciepts also.

#34 of 49 OFFLINE   Yee-Ming

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Posted May 21 2003 - 02:28 PM

Quote:
watch that, as Ive hard of waitstaff altering tip amounts on CC reciepts also.

Surely that's fraud? I guess the waitstaff are betting on the customer not noticing, 'cos if they did and reported it, there'd be hell to pay. Is credit card fraud a federal offence? (Not that being a federal offence necessarily makes it more serious than a state one...)

#35 of 49 OFFLINE   Chris Lockwood

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Posted May 21 2003 - 02:45 PM

> watch that, as Ive hard of waitstaff altering tip amounts on CC reciepts also.

I usually leave a cash tip & just cross out the tip section on the CC receipt. That's hard to alter.


> Seems to me that I would be better off eating at a place that pays thier employees a fair wage and does not require tipping.

How is the customer supposed to know how the employees are paid?

Next time, I guess I'll ask, "Does your employer pay a fair wage, or do you expect a tip?"


> I'm sick of waiting three days for computer support to call back, let alone actually fixing the danged thing.

How much did you tip them?

#36 of 49 OFFLINE   Glenn Overholt

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Posted May 21 2003 - 03:42 PM

Time for a dumb question, maybe...

Going back to the waiter that ended up with a party of twenty, I'd assume that was part of the seating area that she had to cover.

If so, does each waiter have a section with an equal amount of seats? If her section covered 40 seats, would the other sections have that many?

That would lead me to assume that one waiter would be able to cover, say 40 seats, with a supposedly 1 hour turnover, and thus be able to serve 40 guests per hour. Posted Image

If it isn't so, and the 20 seats are in a huge area, larger than the others, shouldn't management know and be able to provide for a second waiter for that section, or am I just all screwed up?

Glenn

#37 of 49 OFFLINE   Mike Blais

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Posted May 22 2003 - 02:37 PM

Quote:
btw - if tips stood for "to insure prompt service" ... wouldn't that mean you're supposed to pay the tip up front?

IIRC TIPS does mean to Insure prompt service, resaturants used to have boxes at the entrance where you would drop a few coins to get good service.

My wife and I always tips according to service, 15% is for average service, neither great nor bad. We scale from there.

As for a large group I don't have a problem with the tip being added automatically. You still do not have to pay the tipped amount if not warranted. This has only happened to us once and we go out in large groups quite often.

I'm astounded that waiters/esses really only make a couple bucks an hour. Here it's min wage yes but it's still 8:00 an hour (or so).

#38 of 49 OFFLINE   Tony Whalen

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Posted May 23 2003 - 01:58 AM

Oh jeez... ANOTHER tip thread? Is this really necessary?

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#39 of 49 OFFLINE   Craig Robertson

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Posted May 23 2003 - 03:35 AM

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Oh jeez... ANOTHER tip thread? Is this really necessary?


this one started two days before the other thread. perhaps your post belongs over there? Posted Image

#40 of 49 OFFLINE   Tony Whalen

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Posted May 23 2003 - 04:49 AM

Thats okay. I've about had my fill of this topic for now. Posted Image


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