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Native 4:3 projector for 16:9 material


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14 replies to this topic

#1 of 15 OFFLINE   JakeCo

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Posted May 09 2003 - 02:38 AM

I am new to HT but I have been doing a lot of reading. I am interested in either a DLP or LCD projecotor that will be ceiling mounted. My budget is between $1000 - $1500. I have been looking closly at the Sanyo PLV-Z1 and the InFocus X1. I know that the Sanyo is native 16:9 and the InFocus is native 4:3. The only thing I will be using the projector for is watching movies so I am set on it being 16:9 for almost all source material.

Will the Sanyo be a better choice because it is native 16:9? If 16:9 is used with the InFocus will it somehow be stretched or compromised because of the InFocus being native 4:3? Thanks.

#2 of 15 OFFLINE   RANDY FISHER

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Posted May 09 2003 - 03:05 AM

I have an X1 and run it in 16:9 mode most of the time for DVD's.

If you set up your DVD player for 16:9 you get the full anamorphic image in this mode but with unused planel areas at the top and bottom. If you have a 16:9 screen there will always be some unused panel in the form of black bars falling off the top and bottom of the screen. If your setup is like the one mentioned above you can either stretch 4:3 material to 16:9 or use the projectors "native" mode to put the 4:3 image in the center of the screen with black bars on the sides.

I went with the X1 over the Z1 because I much prefer DLP technology over LCD for various reasons.

hope this helps...Randy
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#3 of 15 OFFLINE   JakeCo

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Posted May 09 2003 - 03:43 AM

Randy,
Thanks for the reply. I know that when using a 16:9 screen and watching 16:9 material, that there will still be black bars on the top and bottom. I thought that this depended on the movie's aspect ratio. Movies that are 1.85:1 will have very, very small black bars on the top and bottom, if any. But movies that have 2.35:1, will have larger black bars, although not as big as on a 4:3 screen. Is this right?

I forgot to mention that the screen I will be using is 16:9 and that the projector I use will be projecting 16:9 material 99.99% of the time.

#4 of 15 OFFLINE   RANDY FISHER

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Posted May 09 2003 - 04:47 AM

Jake,to answer your question yes and no. Since the X1 has a 4:3 DLP panel you will get 4:3 TV style letterbox bars with 16:9, 1.85:1 and 2.25:1 material. The difference here is that with a projector with a 16:9 mode you can choose to have the letterbox bars fall off the screen edge. Since neither DLP nor LCD can turn off unused pixels in the panel totally (there is still some light shining thru/reflecting off the panel) you will still see what is refered to as raster (the unused portions of the panel still a visable dark grey). If you went with a native 16:9 projector you do get smaller unused raster for 16:9 material that doesn't completely fill the panel.

Randy
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#5 of 15 OFFLINE   JakeCo

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Posted May 09 2003 - 05:06 AM

Randy,
If I will be using mostly 16:9 material, will the quality be any different using a 4:3 projector rather than a 16:9 projector?

#6 of 15 OFFLINE   RANDY FISHER

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Posted May 09 2003 - 06:13 AM

Jake, differences in resolution from projector model to projector model aside, you may sacrifice some rated lumen output when using a 4:3 panel projector in 16:9 mode. I am sure that happens with my X1 but it's still plenty bright for screen sizes less than 100" diag. as long as you have pretty good ambient light control. It's still way brighter than an CRT FP. The resolution in 16:9 mode is 800 x roughly 450 which seems to be plenty for DVD's. If you want a higher resolution DLP XGA projector it will cost you much more than the incredibly priced X1. I bought mine for $1220 delivered before the rebate.

Randy
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#7 of 15 OFFLINE   Neil Joseph

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Posted May 09 2003 - 06:23 AM

I am going to use two projectors as an example.....

The Sony HS10 (1366x768 resolution with native 16x9 panels) and the Nec DT100 (1024x768 resolution with native 4x3 panels). If both projectors were to display the movie Toy Story which has an aspect ratio of 1.78:1 the results would be as follows....

Sony HS10 (1366x768) with the movie displayed using the entire 16x9 screen.

Nec DT100(1024x576) with the movie displayed with black bars at the top and bottom of the 4x3 screen.

So despite the fact that both projectors have 768 vertical pixels, the results are different and projector one would yield a higher resolution for 16x9 material.

If your viewing material is 99% 16x9 then make sure you get a native 16x9 projector. During the few times you watch 4x3 material, you will get black bars to the left and right of the image.
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#8 of 15 OFFLINE   JakeCo

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Posted May 09 2003 - 07:13 AM

Neil,
I'm kinda confused here. I just checked projectorcentral.com and looked up the Sanyo PLV-Z1 and it said that it is a 16:9 projector. I know you said that it is 4:3. Am I reading the review on projectorcentral.com wrong? Thanks.

#9 of 15 OFFLINE   Jim J

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Posted May 09 2003 - 07:43 AM

He used a bad model for his example. You are right the Z1 is a 16:9 projector with resolution 964x544.

Insert 'favorite XGA projector here' for 'Sanyo Z1'

Jim J

#10 of 15 OFFLINE   RANDY FISHER

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Posted May 09 2003 - 08:20 AM

The Sony's pixel resolution is indeed as high as stated but so is it's price. At ~$2400 street price, if you can find one, it's over $1200 more then the X1. The Sanyo Z1 with it's 964 x 544 16:9 panel can be had for around $1400. Of coarse all things being equal, and in this case they are not, resolution isn't everything. Contrast ratio, real world lumen output after calibration, screen door effect, black levels, reliability and image quality come into play when making a purchasing decision. I went with low cost 4:3 800 x 600 DLP for various reasons not the least of which was higher resolution and or 16:9 DLP display devices were out of my price range at this moment. And I really like DLP. But, there are some absolutely awesome bang for the buck projectors out there right now in the form of both LCD and DLP displays. See http://www.projectorcentral.com for a recommended HT projector list.

have fun Randy
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#11 of 15 OFFLINE   Neil Joseph

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Posted May 09 2003 - 08:45 AM

Yes, I will fix the confusion by changing the model, thanks. but the point is still valid that I am trying to make.
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#12 of 15 OFFLINE   Bill Maeder

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Posted May 14 2003 - 07:10 AM

Hey Randy,

I too am looking into the X1 as my entry into Front Projection. Since you say you have the X1,my question is about the rainbow phenom I have been reading about.

Does the X1 exhibit this effect noticeably? I know that this is somewhat subjective, just in your opinion.

Thanks
Bill


#13 of 15 OFFLINE   RANDY FISHER

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Posted May 15 2003 - 02:32 AM

Bill, rainbows are real but in my opinion grossly over reacted to. Most people can't see them or see them and don't know what they are. I saw them (little flashes of tri-colored light on the edges of contrasty area's of the image) at first if I was looking for them but it wasn't like it made this awesome little projector worthless like some have stated. After only 20+ hours on the bulb I rarely notice them. My girlfriend has never even mentioned it nor has anyone else who saw the projector. I hear comments all the time from people on the AVS that they wouldn't even consider DLP because of it. My advise is to buy one and make sure the place a good no-restocking fee return policy. My guess is you won't wan't to part with the unit once you have it.

Randy
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#14 of 15 OFFLINE   JakeCo

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Posted May 15 2003 - 04:05 AM

Randy, does the rainbow effect have anything to do with viewing distance, like the screendoor effect does? I know that with LCD pjs, the farther back you are, the screendoor effect disappears (I think that is true, correct if I'm wrong). Does viewing distance have anything to do with the rainbow effect?

#15 of 15 OFFLINE   RANDY FISHER

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Posted May 15 2003 - 04:57 AM

Jake, I don't think that viewing distance would have an impact on rainbows. It's the spinning of the color wheel and "humans persistence of vision" on a single chip DLP display that causes it, not any sort of direct attribute of the DMD chip itself. The screen door effect is caused by the size of the pixels on any given fixed resolution display device and the distance the viewer is from the screen. Screen door can also be a problem with DLP not just LCD but it's usually less of a problem on a DLP device as the pixels (actually mirrors) are closer together than LCD pixels are.

Randy
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