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M&K 5000 vs. SVS PB- 2 Subwoofer Help


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#1 of 10 OFFLINE   JohnBZZ

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Posted May 06 2003 - 08:12 AM

I'm trying to decide between the M&K 5000 and the SVS-PB2. I have tried the M&K 5000 but never heard any of the SVS line. This forum makes the SVS seem untouchable; however an unbiased friend said that while the SVS is a great performer generating "good" noise (he was being positive here)the M&K was far superior being more musical.

I'm a real novice at home theater, could someone help me understand the difference between these two great sub's and make some recommendations? I'll be using this sub in a dedicated home theater (no tunes), matched up with the Atlantic Technology 450e ultra THX 7.1 system.

Thanks in advance

John

#2 of 10 OFFLINE   Andrew CM

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Posted May 06 2003 - 11:05 PM

John

I own a AT 450 5.1 system.
I have matched it with twin SVS Ultra subs - have moved the AT 450 sub to another room.
In a nutshell, the bass respone transition is seamless - makes the AT sub sound like a boombox but the comparison is probably unfair. My system is HT dedicated and the SVS addition is the best upgrade to the HT so far -
BTW, what AT spkrs r u using for the back surrounds - ?dipoles or same as the LR spkrs.
Sorry, have no experience with the M&K but cannot beat SVS pricewise - except I am sorely tempted to get their new PB-2 plus sub.

Finally, email Tom or Ron at SVS - should get good advice regarding best sub for your requirements.


Hope this helps a little.

#3 of 10 OFFLINE   JohnBZZ

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Posted May 07 2003 - 05:09 AM

Thanks Andrew,

I will be using the AT 454's for the surround speakers, they are dipoles.

I'm leaning hard toward the SVS PB-2, it's half the price and I'm having difficulty believing it's half the value of the M&K. I can't figure out why the M&K is so expensive, comparatively speaking.

I don't want a sub that just shakes the room, I'm going to use tactile transducers for that. It's important that the low frequency sounds from the sub come through clean & crisp. Hopefully the PB-2 isn't just a boom box.

What we really need are people that have had experience with both, so we can get a comparative analysis. Unless proved otherwise , I'm going to opt for the PB-2 as a better value.

BTW, I just came back from the cup races, nice place you have down there!

Thanks for your comments,

John

#4 of 10 OFFLINE   Edward J M

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Posted May 07 2003 - 05:44 AM

Quote:
I'm leaning hard toward the SVS PB-2, it's half the price and I'm having difficulty believing it's half the value of the M&K. I can't figure out why the M&K is so expensive, comparatively speaking.


I think the old adage "you're paying for the name", probably rings somewhat true in this case. With that said, I don't doubt the M&K 5000 is a great sub - it had better be for $2500.

Quote:
It's important that the low frequency sounds from the sub come through clean & crisp. Hopefully the PB-2 isn't just a boom box.


"Boom box" has never been a term associated with any SV sub. SV subs have been independently measured and verified to display very low levels of harmonic distortion, which directly translates into a perception of "clean" lows.

Quote:
What we really need are people that have had experience with both, so we can get a comparative analysis. Unless proved otherwise , I'm going to opt for the PB-2 as a better value.


I have no experience with the M&K 5000. Comparing the hardware, both have twin 12" drivers, but the alignment is different (push/pull vs. vented). The SVS has over twice the amp power (900 vs. 400).

While subjective tastes vary, I do believe that a sub will sound pretty much as it measures. If it displays a flat FR, deep extension, low THD and IMD, good transient response and acceptable group delay numbers, and a high and linear SPL capability across its entire operating range - odds are it will sound pretty damn good.

Subjective terms like "boomy", "one note", "muddy", "sloppy", etc., can often be linked to objective and measurable parameters.

With this in mind, I highly doubt in a head-to-head objective comparo that the M&K 5000 would end up being twice as good as the PB2-Plus in any measurable performance parameter. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the PB2-Plus turns the tables and betters the M&K in several categories, all for half the money.

You've got a 45 day no questions asked money back return policy from SVS. All you risk is a loss on shipping fees. You could always buy both at the beginning of your credit card cycle and return the loser before the bill is due.

Regards,

Ed
Ed Mullen
Director - Technology and Customer Relations

SVS

www.svsound.com

"What we do in life, echoes in eternity."


#5 of 10 OFFLINE   Alex Prosak

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Posted May 07 2003 - 09:20 AM

I'm eagerly awaiting my PB-2+, I'll definitely post my thoughts once I get it. It's been awhile but I have heard the MX-5000. It is definitely a good sub but like Ed said, you're paying for the M&K name and A LOT of full page advertising in many stereo publications. That advertising ain't cheap.

I have also heard the SVS 20-39 PC and I think it is very clean, powerful, and musical sub. I think it would best many of M&K's offerings on its own.

This is just my opinion, many others will differ, but I don't think you can go wrong at all with the SVS sub. Plus, you'll save a bunch of money for other toys.


#6 of 10 OFFLINE   Al_Swanson

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Posted May 07 2003 - 01:55 PM

I've had the 20-39PC and it was awesome. No doubt. Shook the whole house and a bit of the neighbors, too. That said, I got a hold of a 5000 and there is no comparison. Seriously. The 5000 is so much cleaner, louder, smoother. I run out of superlatives to describe it.
Now keep in mind, I have not used Tom and Ron's newest creation, so YMMV.
M&K 750 (F,C), M&K SS150 (S), M&K MX5000MkII (Sub)

#7 of 10 OFFLINE   ross ish

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Posted May 07 2003 - 02:04 PM

I have heard the Dual SVS Ultra, Hsu TN 1220, Sunfire, Paradigm servo, Velodyne HGS 18.....All are good subs and would please anyone. None of them would necessarily dust another performance wise. However, some may be a better value for the buck.

The M&K costs more, not solely because of marketing hype; it is just better made than most subs.

The 5000 is a large heavily reinforced furniture grade black ash veneered cabinet. The 5000 has 2 very expensive proprietary drivers; not off the shelf type. The 5000 sports audiophile grade mono block class a/b amp complete with a massive power supply with 400watts rms and sustained 750watts peak; not a digital grade plate amp (do you want a class d or h amp driving your main speaker?). Besides amp power is not that meaningful as speaker efficiency plays a major role. The 5000 has thx compatible crossovers. The 5000 has 10 year no questions asked warranty. Like all great companies, M&K has great customer service.

It all boils down to what you like and what you can afford.

#8 of 10 OFFLINE   JohnBZZ

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Posted May 07 2003 - 02:50 PM

Geezzz, I was doing just fine until I read Al's post, "no comparison", now thats a pretty strong impression.

Actually thanks to everyone, I suspected there was more to the M&K story.

For me it is more a question of value than money. Research and feedback are telling me that the M&K is most likely better; however I don't think a novice like myself is going to get double the value from the added performance. When Ross asked if I would want a class D or H amp driving my speakers, I know I'm out of my league. Not technically, but in my ability to appreciate the very top end of high fidelity. I think it is like fine wine, you have to develop the taste to really appreciate the difference. If I get hooked on HT as I suspect, I'll just E-bay the PB-2 and trade up to see what the M&K is all about.

Thanks again,

John

#9 of 10 OFFLINE   Robert_Gaither

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Posted May 07 2003 - 02:54 PM

If it was me I'd take the SVS and put the rest of the money in an eq and room treatments. Naked the M&K might seem the better sub (some people don't like the distortion that a sub that produces subsonic sounds might stimulate from the surrounding and if you're not willing to go to that extra length neither sub will do ya) as I serious doubt it'll have the output of the SVS.

I've heard several of the M&K and don't let the low power rating of their sub amps fool you as it seems they rate theirs on a very conservative scale compared to most brands I've heard. M&K makes great subs and their list of professional users indicate that they know how to make a sub. If you feel you must have a name this is one of the brands that lives up to it's reputation.

By the same token, SVS is a company that will one day have a name simply because they use the simple philosophy of large cabinet, good driver, and good power concept (personally it amazes me that they have sceptics who are "audiophiles" who wouldn't know what really low bass really is and can't accept a company that uses a well developed ported design). Though I have never heard one of their subs in person, I build them as a hobby and based on what I've learned in the past, this is a company that only makes one compromise and that is that they're willing to lose customers and build a sub that is performance first and size acceptance second (only people who even consider their subs small are some of us in the Diy community, and we all know that no matter how good a "water heater" sub can sound like some will never accept them in their rooms!). This is a sub that all the science is worked out and will definitely perform as claimed without a bogus we go down to 16 hz statement and not claim a db rating at that frequency (email deftech, velodyne, and others and ask at what db their respective subs play at lowest claimed frequency, I've seen tom post these on forums that tells you that he is willing to be called on this and thus I've yet to hear anyone call him a liar on this and that definitely states something).

Personally if it was me I'd go SVS, HSU, Adire, Stryke, RAD, Acoustic Visions, or VMPS and throw the money saved on a good amp, eq, and room treatment.

#10 of 10 OFFLINE   Doug BW

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Posted May 07 2003 - 03:40 PM

John, I have no doubt that Al was accurate when he said there was "no comparison" between the SVS PC and the M&K 5000. But be aware that there will certainly be "no comparison" between the PC and the new PB2+. The PC is a now-obsolete model that had a 190 watt amp. It's been replaced by the PCi which has 320 watt amp and a significantly improved driver. Above the PCi in the SVS product line is the PC+. The PC+ has a much better driver than the PCi, a 525 watt amp and nearly double the porting. Above the PC+ is the sub you're asking about: the PB2+. The PB2+ is essentially two PC+'s in a single box (with not quite double the power of a PC+). So a PB2+ is probably the equal of roughly 4 PCs.

The biggest problem with trying to compare an SVS sub with an M&K sub by looking at their price tags is that SVS sells their subs direct over the internet while M&K sells through a dealer network. Dealer networks have the benefit of allowing people to audition products easily, but have the downside of probably doubling the retail price. Also, the cost of putting the THX logo on the M&K is being passed along to the purchaser.

It's your money to spend as you see fit, but I'd buy the SVS, then compare it to the M&K during the 45 day trial period. If you think the M&K is not only better, but enough better to justify the extra cost, send the SVS back.





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