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What is up with DVDA and SACD CONTENT?


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64 replies to this topic

#21 of 65 OFFLINE   Patrick Larkin

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Posted April 29 2003 - 06:12 AM

Quote:
Yes a high resolution copy of CCR, Bowie, Clapton, Hendrix, and the others do need to be made, because they are classics.

No doubt they are classics. I have them on vinyl and on CD. And of course they need to be made but lets mix in some current stuff. Some bands that take recording and mixing to the next level - that have the tools none of these acts ever dreamed of...

I will definitely NOT be spending $25 on a hires copy of "Keep on Chooglin'" - my other formats are just fine, thanks.

#22 of 65 OFFLINE   Rich Malloy

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Posted April 29 2003 - 06:18 AM

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the point is not which music is BETTER but which was recorded in a way that would benefit the most from hires/multichannel. CCR was guitars, bass, drums playing pretty standard blues/rock.
Patrick, if you've got so much vinyl, how in the world could you possibly believe that Radiohead, Coldplay, Linkin Park, etc., could possibly sound better on SACD/DVD-A than, for example, Creedence?

Those recordings suck, and most definitely including "OK Computer". Why even bother releasing highly processed, filtered, compressed crap on a high resolution format? The few attempts to do so thusfar have been failures (most recently Oasis, as you might recall).

On the other hand, Creedence's music has had a long history of sounding great on vinyl and CD. The SACD brings it to a new level, and its not just my ears telling me so. Steve Hoffman, the talented guy who's been mastering these albums from before the advent of SACD, concurs.

Quote:
If they put Linkin Park and Insane Clown Posse on SACD, I wouldn't complain that they're doing that instead of stuff I like, I just wouldn't buy those discs.
Quite honestly, I'd complain.

There is simply too much important stuff to release, and there's far too large a production backlog (particularly at the hybrid plants) to be wasting time right now on the latest flavors-of-the-month. Snobby? Perhaps. But Linkin Park and ICP fans don't make the hi-res world go round, and the studios know it. Let those crap recordings of the merely trendy get traded around on MP3, and leave the hi-res formats for serious music and serious listeners.
"Only one is a wanderer;
Two together are always going somewhere."

#23 of 65 OFFLINE   Patrick Larkin

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Posted April 29 2003 - 06:25 AM

Rich - Linkin Park? Please. Don't group me in that category. As for OK Computer, how do I know what all the orginal masters sound like? I'm not a recording engineer. I want modern acts in multichannel mixes - THAT'S IT.

And I don't begrudge CCR - I've listened to my vinyl copy of Cosom's Factory a million times. But I'd STILL be complaining if the format was dominated by 60's/70's acts that I still care about like Zappa and VU.

Quote:
leave the hi-res formats for serious music and serious listeners.

CCR is "serious" music? Posted Image

#24 of 65 OFFLINE   george king

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Posted April 29 2003 - 06:25 AM

Lance,

To a degree you have a point. However, if you really believe that, then the companies are going to put out stuff that sells big time. So, you are going to get Britney, Christina, BBB, and the like.

"audiophiles" tend be older, have money to invest in new formats that offer higher resolution, and so the companies are going to offer music to them that they know will sell.

#25 of 65 OFFLINE   LanceJ

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Posted April 29 2003 - 06:27 AM

Jeez guys I NEVER said all the old stuff sucks.

I just don't want to keep hearing it over and over again.

This is exactly why I don't participate in most music-only threads--a person's musical likes & dislikes are highly personal and are not a good subject for an objective discussion.

And I still think she's a frump. :P)

LJ

#26 of 65 OFFLINE   Patrick Larkin

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Posted April 29 2003 - 06:28 AM

George - you are 6 years older than me. if you are saying that no one in our age group can appreciate Wilco -AND- Jimi Hendrix, then I completely disagree as do most of my friends.

Its funny - I'm definitely getting the my music rules and all new music sucks vibe. There is a lot of stuff going on outside the mainstream guys. (I recall getting that from my parents generation about 50's music and now my generation seems to be picking up on that same old rut.)

And I just listed Radiohead, Coldplay, and Flaming Lips because they are sort of mainstream now and you'd expect them to get attention. I'd personally rather have the new Soft Boys, Shins, some Wilco and Elvis Costello but thats me...

#27 of 65 OFFLINE   LanceJ

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Posted April 29 2003 - 06:37 AM

Yesterday's flavor of the month could very probably be today's "classic".

I like Jefferson Airplane, but I'll bet lots of people back in the 60's thought it was just druggie music to get high with and wouldn't last.

We don't know what is going to be the "good stuff" later on so we need to encourage new artists NOW.

LJ

#28 of 65 OFFLINE   Rich Malloy

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Posted April 29 2003 - 06:45 AM

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I just listed Radiohead, Coldplay, and Flaming Lips because they are sort of mainstream now and you'd expect them to get attention
So you're not really enamored of the likes of Radiohead or Coldplay (or Linkin Park, Insane Clown Posse, etc.), but are rather more interested in the likes of Steely Dan, Frank Zappa and Elvis Costello?

So, why did you start this thread on behalf of an audience that is not yourself, and which are, generally speaking, quite satisfied with MP3 rips? Do you really think it's a good idea to go to the trouble of putting poor recordings on a hi-res format, simply because they're "new", and especially when the fans of said recordings are ignoring the hi-res formats altogether?
"Only one is a wanderer;
Two together are always going somewhere."

#29 of 65 OFFLINE   Patrick Larkin

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Posted April 29 2003 - 06:49 AM

Rich - because I listen to and appreciate those bands as well. Geez, I'm glad I don't like in your black and white world. You are grouping Coldplay with Insane Clown Posse on an artistic level? And you keep insisting that Coldplay and the like don't care about recording quality and only skate punks with iPods listen to them. Wow.

As I've said before, I want multichannel mixes of new bands that can really take advantage of it. Pretty simple really. I covet a 5.1 copy of Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. (Are you going to tell me Wilco doesn't care about studio recording/mixing as well?) My argument is for adventurous NEW music - not the same old classic rock I've been hearing (and listening to at times voluntarily) for the last 30 years!

#30 of 65 OFFLINE   george king

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Posted April 29 2003 - 07:22 AM

Patrick,

I apologize, I should have read your profile, as you are not that much younger than I am. I never said that I do not listen to recent music. In addition, I love and have a large collection of Elvis Costello, Nick Cave, This Mortal Coil, etc. Jeez, I used to listen to The Talking Heads at CBGBs.

I have also started listening to more alternative music these days, and have purchased a bunch from CD Baby.

That said some of the difference may be what you want. You have said that you want MC mixes. Me on the other hand, I like 2 channel. I have about 30 SACDs some of them MC, and the only MC mix that I vaguely like is DSOTM. The others are gimmicky (and I have heard Beck and Bowie - and I stilled preferred the 2 channel mix).

#31 of 65 OFFLINE   Rich Malloy

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Posted April 29 2003 - 07:23 AM

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I covet a 5.1 copy of Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. (Are you going to tell me Wilco doesn't care about studio recording/mixing as well?). My argument is for adventurous NEW music - not the same old classic rock I've been hearing (and listening to at times voluntarily) for the last 30 years!
I want Wilco, too, but you're simply uninformed if you think the only titles available are classic rock ones.

What counts as adventurous to you? On the SACD side, do artists like Beck, David Bowie, Peter Gabriel, Aimee Mann, Bryan Ferry, Roxy Music, the Human League, Patricia Barber, Steve Earle, Sigur Rós, the Jayhawks, Cowboy Junkies, etc., not cut it for you? You mentioned the Flaming Lips in your first post, but of course they too have been out on DVD-A for a little while now, as has Bjork (and apparently Insane Clown Posse). When you say "adventurous new music", are you excluding anything related to jazz, classical, or world? Is it the Wilco you really want? Or Phish?
"Only one is a wanderer;
Two together are always going somewhere."

#32 of 65 OFFLINE   RaulR

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Posted April 29 2003 - 07:25 AM

Patrick,

I think you could have made the same point and stirred up less controversy by simply saying "Why are there so relatively few multichannel releases of recent albums?"

My (less cynical compared to the one above) response is that there are probably a few reasons in the minds of record companies:

1) They don't want to spend the money on a concurrent multichannel release of a new album when they don't yet know if it will be a big seller.

2) If a recent album has sold well on CD, they probably don't want to be accused of double-dipping by releasing a hi-res version shortly after.

3) It makes for more attractive marketing to take an older title that's considered a classic, reissue it in hi-res, and proclaims things like "First time using the original master tapes!" and "The Mega-Dinosaur Band as you've never heard them before!"

4) They probably think (and rightly so, IMO) that a hi-res release of a recent album wouldn't sound all that different from the CD.

#33 of 65 OFFLINE   LanceJ

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Posted April 29 2003 - 07:30 AM

My Coldplay album Parachutes is one of the better recorded albums that I own. Solid imaging, detailed highs, vocals clearly rendered.

That CD so many people hold as some kind of sonic reference point, Miles Davis' Kind of Blue, is not even close. Piercing wind instruments and bucket loads of tape hiss constantly remind me I am listening to a recording--not good.

LJ

#34 of 65 OFFLINE   Patrick Larkin

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Posted April 29 2003 - 07:38 AM

Raul - you're right. I attempted to make my point without clarifying where my musical experiences are coming from. Apologies. The post was prompted by other threads exulting the releases of CCR and Heart on SACD like this was some coup for the format!

Rich - Bowie definitely is adventurous, but unfortunately not since Scary Monsters. Bryan Ferry and Roxy Music are certainly adventurous but again, their best stuff is long behind them. Peter Gabriel - same can be said. The Human League Posted Image. Cowboy Junkies - I might buy The Trinity Session. Out of your list, I'd buy the Jayhawks disc. You made my point for me. Its a strange mix of stuff.

Flaming Lips have nothing on DVDA or SACD but there are rumors that a DVDA of Yoshimi is coming. This CD is exactly my point - a totally non-mainstream rock recording that could utilize the multi-channel format to its fullest extent. Just look at the last 5 years "10 best lists" and see if any of them are available. I don't think many, if any, are available.

#35 of 65 OFFLINE   Rich Malloy

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Posted April 29 2003 - 07:41 AM

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My Coldplay album Parachutes is one of the better recorded albums that I own. Solid imaging, detailed highs, vocals clearly rendered.
My friend has the (Parlophone?) vinyl release of "A Rush of Blood to the Head", and that one also sounds very good (haven't heard the CD). Would probably make a very good multichannel release.

Quote:
Out of your list, I'd buy the Jayhawks disc. You made my point for me. Its a strange mix of stuff.
I thought your point was the opposite--that it was a boring, unsurprising non-mix of the same ol' stuff?
"Only one is a wanderer;
Two together are always going somewhere."

#36 of 65 OFFLINE   george king

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Posted April 29 2003 - 07:44 AM

Patrick,

I now understand a bit better where you are coming from. I already addressed the MC issue. The other is that you want adventerous non-mainstream music on SACD or DVD-A.

Unfortunately, that is not likely to come, although it is not likely in droves. Non-mainstream bands do not have ready access to record and release a SACD or DVD-A (although I did pick up a great SACD by Martha's Trouble - Still off of CD Baby - not your type of music, but it is an example). On the other hand, adventerous and corporate (which would have access) is an oxymoron.

Sorry

#37 of 65 OFFLINE   Patrick Larkin

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Posted April 29 2003 - 07:47 AM

Rich - no, your selection of the handful of bands is a strange mix. That being said, it is a tiny handful and I'd have to put Gabriel and Roxy Music and Bowie into the "Same old stuff" category at this point.

George - I don't know. I have the DVDA by Glen Phillips (formerly of Toad the Wet Sprocket) and it was done without a major corporate backer and is a tremendous release.

#38 of 65 OFFLINE   Lee Scoggins

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Posted April 29 2003 - 07:47 AM

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Piercing wind instruments and bucket loads of tape hiss constantly remind me I am listening to a recording--not good.


I think many audiophiles like myseld see significant problems with using this recording as a master reference. It has some great things but it cannot compare to recent audiophile jazz recording in sonics and, in some cases, performance.

As for tape hiss, many times this can be a good thing although some do not like the sound. Often it means that the tape hiss was not edited out using Sonic Solutions or other devices which compress the dynamic range. So, you are really hearing something close to the tape.

The best recording of Miles is the Classic Records vinyl in any event.

Posted Image
Viewing: Sony KDSXBR150, Sony Bluray S570, ATT Uverse
Listening: Sony SCD777ES, Benchmark DAC1Pre, VPI/Modwright SWP9SE/Lyra Argo, Audio Research Ref3/VT100, Maggie 1.7s

 


#39 of 65 OFFLINE   Lee Scoggins

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Posted April 29 2003 - 07:52 AM

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Just look at the last 5 years "10 best lists" and see if any of them are available. I don't think many, if any, are available.


There have been many critical favorites released in hirez. Here is some food for thought:

1. Beck Sea Changes was widely hailed as a great album and it sounds awesome on Super Audio.

2. Steely Dan's Gaucho is a classic and its coming to SACD.

3. Many critics lists of audiophile recordings like the ones on Chesky, Telarc, and Groove Note have all been released as have many others like Stereophile Record of The Month (McCoy Tyner New York Reunion Posted Image )

4. Peter Gabriel is seeing the whole catalog released.

5. Many of the Great 60s albums have been released: Stones, Jefferson Airplane due up, Janis Joplin Cheap Thrills, Bob Dylan coming soon in hybrid, etc.

Posted Image
Viewing: Sony KDSXBR150, Sony Bluray S570, ATT Uverse
Listening: Sony SCD777ES, Benchmark DAC1Pre, VPI/Modwright SWP9SE/Lyra Argo, Audio Research Ref3/VT100, Maggie 1.7s

 


#40 of 65 OFFLINE   Al B. C

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Posted April 29 2003 - 07:52 AM

I'd have to put Gabriel and Roxy Music and Bowie into the "Same old stuff" category at this point.


I take it you never listened to "Heathen".

It's far from being what I'd call stale.


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