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Sony KP51-WS500 Video 1 Input Naming Weirdness


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#1 of 11 OFFLINE   TimTurtino

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Posted April 26 2003 - 09:14 AM

Sorry if this is a known problem, but I couldn't find anything (frankly, couldn't find any good terms to search on). I just got a Sony KP51-WS500 (WooHoo! Awesome!). It looks great, but after I named my Video 1 input ("Receiver"), I have the following behavior: When I'm on Video 1 and I use the Channel Up/Down buttons, the TV acts like it's changing channels, but the picture stays on the Video 1 (S-Vid from my receiver) input. From then on, changing to that input always gives a channel number instead of either "Video 1" or "Receiver". If I name it back to "Video 1", this behavior goes away. If I then rename it "Reciever", I get the behavior back. Any ideas, folks? This TV looks awesome (much better than the floor model at my local Circuit City), and so I'd prefer not to return it if this problem is fixable or at least not a symptom of something else wrong. (BTW, TV's serial number is well outside the flicker range and it _says_ it was manufactured in April 2003, although I find that hard to believe, since it was delivered to my house last week...) Me

#2 of 11 OFFLINE   Steve Schaffer

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Posted April 26 2003 - 10:12 AM

Tim, I have a KP57HW40, 19 months old with no flicker, same chassis as your set. After reading your post I tried the same thing on my set. It exhibits the exact same behavior as your set. This is not a malfunction in your particular set, just a quirk in Sony's setup. I tried labelling Video 1 as dvd instead of receiver, and the strange behavior went away. I don't know for sure what Sony's logic was in setting things up this way, but it must have been intentional. I have noticed that the channel up/down buttons on the remote are especially sensitive and easy to press accidentally. Perhaps Sony's rationale is that if you label Video 1 as Receiver, you are going to be using the receiver for video switching, and don't want the set changing to it's own tuner if someone accidentally hits the channel button on the tv remote? I can't find the owner's manual for my set, so don't know if this is explained there. I don't find this to be a make-or-break issue as far as my overall satisfaction with the set by any means, just a wierd quirk. Since we have 2 sets with the same chassis exhibitting the same behavior, and one of them (mine) has performed flawlessly for over a year and a half, I tend to think it's not a malfunction, intentional on the part of Sony, and not likely to cause any problems. If you're otherwise happy with the set, I would certainly not return it. There are so many more serious problems to worry about that might crop up on some other model that I'd tend to want to stick with the relatively insignificant quirk I know about than some unkown potentially real malfuncion on some other set.
Steve S.
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#3 of 11 OFFLINE   TimTurtino

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Posted April 27 2003 - 10:55 AM

Wowzers!

58 minutes for a careful, insightful, well-written, and exactly on-target reply.

Is it any wonder that I recommend this board to every single one of my customers with a brain?

Steve-- given how good this TV looks (and after another day at work looking at other TVs, I've decided it's really not my imagination-- I got a good one!), it'll have to pretty much blow up before I let it out the door. I'm actually considering an extended warranty (which I never buy) just because I don't want to lose this unit. Posted Image

Thanks for trying that out. I couldn't find anything in the manual about it either, but your reason sounds awfully convincing.

Okay, now to gripe:

Sony screwed up here. It's fine for people that connect everything through there receiver, or for people who do the opposite, but what about people who connect everything through the receiver and also to the TV (like me). If I hit the Display button to find out what input I'm on, it tells me I'm watching channel 27, when in fact I'm watching the TiVo through the receiver. Of course, don't get me started on the fact that I can only pick from their list of possible input names....

Anyway, if that's the worst problem I encounter on this TV, I probably shouldn't even gripe. Pretend you didn't read the above paragraph.

Me

#4 of 11 OFFLINE   Steve Schaffer

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Posted April 28 2003 - 09:25 AM

Tim, The Sony wasn't my first choice back in Sept. 01. I had originally bought another make widescreen HD-ready set, based on my good experience with one of that mfgs. analog rptvs and some good reviews on the net. It had a posterized look on ntsc sources, a bad green tinge to the dark end of the grayscale, and nausea-inducing stretch modes. I tweaked for over 2 weeks to the point that I was spending more time fiddling with it than watching it. I finally gave up and went to CC to arrange a return and refund, deciding to go back to that great analog 4/3 set. They'd just gotten in the HW40 Sonys, and after looking at them for 20 minutes I decided to do an exchange for one instead of a return. 20 minutes after the Sony was delivered, I knew I had a keeper. I've done a couple of minor service menu tweaks to tone down SVM and correct red push, and couldn't be happier. I bought my Sony before the flicker problem reared it's ugly head. It is an earlier production model (Aug 01) with a 97 rather than a 90 serial number. I did not buy the extended warranty when I bought the set. A month or so before it was out of warranty CC sent me an offer to extend the warranty an additional 3 years for around $300. One of the provisions of this extended warranty is that if the set cannot be fixed, it will be replaced with a brand new comparable model tv. Although I had not had a single problem with the tv, I decided to go ahead and get the extended warranty. One repair on one of these beasts can easily run over the cost of the extended warranty and the replacement provision put me over the edge. Given the fact that there is so much variance in the competence of service in the tv repair industry these days that replacement provision really could be worthwhile. I don't buy extended warrantys as a rule, the cost/benefit ratio usually doesn't compute on stuff like $150 dvd players. But $300 to insure an over $2000 tv begins to make more sense.
Steve S.
I prefer not to push the subwoofers until they're properly run in.

#5 of 11 OFFLINE   Bill Will

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Posted April 28 2003 - 01:31 PM

I don't have a Sony but I was just wondering is that fluke just on input 1? or does it happen on all the inputs? Maybe Sony just doesn't want you to label the Video 1 input Receiver? Just A thought.

#6 of 11 OFFLINE   TimTurtino

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Posted April 29 2003 - 02:28 AM

Steve-- thanks for the advice. It's always good to hear how people make their decisions. However, my next RPTV may well not be a Sony. Anyway, my point is that if they can't fix this unit, then replacement doesn't really help me. This unit is quite amazingly good-- if I'm going to replace it, it may well be with a Pioneer Elite or some other such TV. (Nothing against Sony, mind you-- I might be perfectly happy w/ them, but I can't even predict the RPTV market 7 months out right now...)

(Warning: what follows in a math major's take on what "computes". It's probably slightly more boring than most sin.)

FWIW, the average "major repair" rate (over five years) as reported by Consumer Reports on even the worst reliability TVs (Not IBM, not JVC, hmmm) is only around 15%. Sony RPTVs are under 10%. Not every repair requires replacement, but even if it did, the expected cost* for replacing a $2000 Sony TV due to malfunction is under $200. (Not even considering that getting better features for a lower price has been a mainstay of this market for 5 years now).

Now, if you can't afford a major repair bill, or can't stand to do without your TV should it go south, then $300 may start to sound like a good deal. But always remember that you're paying someone a great deal more than it costs them to keep you from having to worry about a (less than 10%) probability.

Of course, w/ the flicker, all bets are off. My TV has pretty much been on since I got it, except for 1-4 hour stints turned off twice a day. If this unit flickers, I want to find out before my 30 days are up. Posted Image

Me

*"expected cost" == what we should reasonably expect a large group of people all buying the TV to pay on average. Few people's bill will actually be $200- most will pay nothing, the rest quite a lot.

#7 of 11 OFFLINE   TimTurtino

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Posted April 29 2003 - 02:35 AM

Bill-- that's a great point! I tried it, and the behavior only manifests itself on input 1. Thanks a lot for the suggestion. For anyone who cares: It only happens on input 1 when it's set to "Receiver". (Tried all the other possibilities). It does not happen on inputs 2, 3, or 4 when they are set to "Receiver" (even if one of those is the only one set to "Receiver".) Inputs 5, 6, and 7 can not be so set-- don't even get me started on that... Well, at least I have a workaround available if I want it. Take care, Me

#8 of 11 OFFLINE   Bill Will

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Posted April 29 2003 - 04:14 AM

Tim, I'm glad it worked out for you & I was just thinking that I'll bet it has something to do with having a Sony Receiver & other Sony products that are all hooked up using Sony's "S" Jack Control System. But you would think that Sony would have included that kind of information in the owners manual for the tv sets too & not just the other Sony products that have an "S" Jack on them. But I could be all wrong on my "S" Jack thought though Posted Image Maybe someone who is using Sony's "S" Jack System will chime in & set us all straight. Makes you wonder though how many people think it's just a screw up & are just living with it or even worse for the stores if they exchanged the set because no one at the store knew of this problem either. But then again, there is another open-box set with nothing wrong with it at a reduced price just waiting to be snatched up Posted Image

#9 of 11 OFFLINE   Steve Schaffer

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Posted April 29 2003 - 01:32 PM

My main reason for going with the extended wty. was the free replacement deal, as I am totally paranoid that if something goes wrong with the set nobody in this area will be able to fix it at any price. I'm treating it as an insurance policy, in full knowledge that the likelihood of my actually needing it is fairly low. I don't have the price of a set of crts, much less the price of another new tv laying around in the bank so in the admittedly unlikely event that the set does break down and need an expensive repair I'm covered.
Steve S.
I prefer not to push the subwoofers until they're properly run in.

#10 of 11 OFFLINE   Grant B

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Posted April 29 2003 - 07:09 PM

I just got done setting up the TV for a friend and caught the reciever label in the manual. It fixes it to that input because of video switching. Guess if you dont look at the manual... I have a question for you owners. I set up his dvd and HD200 sat box and I loaned him my CLD 504 LD with some movies since he has no DVDs. Its a ok LD;not as good as my Elite 79 but good. I was wondering if it would look ok on this bige rear projection. It looked great which suprised the hell out of me; equal to the DVD player in picture quality. This does not seem right
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#11 of 11 OFFLINE   TimTurtino

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Posted May 01 2003 - 08:32 AM

Grant-- you're right-- it does say in the manual that "When you select 'Receiver' on Video Label, your projection TV's input is fixed." Of course, that's only true on Video 1, and it's not actually fixed (well, it's fixed w/ respect to channel changing, but not TV/Vid...). So I don't feel too bad about having missed this, and still consider it to be a weirdness. I'd suggest you post a new thread w/ your other question, as people are unlikely to be reading this thread at this point unless they care about this issue. My take, FWIW, is that a good LD on a decent LD player can easily look as good as a poorly encoded DVD on an average DVD player. Just because DVDs have a better best case scenario doesn't mean every DVD will take advantage of it. Me




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