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John Doe season finale...Holy Cow!! (MAJOR SPOILERS)..


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#1 of 21 OFFLINE   todd s

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Posted April 26 2003 - 04:10 AM

Major Spoilers
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You have been warned
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Digger is the leader of the Phoenix group. Holy Crap! Now I always had thought their was more to Digger than what they showed. I had assumed he worked for the government. And possibly the Phoenix Group. But, to be their leader. Whoa! that took me by surprise. The only thing that was making me think about him. Is when he called the 2 cops to back him up on the mine raid. I wondered where Digger was. And Doe never mentioned why he wasn't there.

This show BETTER be renewed for next season. I take comfort in the fact that it is the top rated show for it's time period in the big 18-34 age group.
Bring back John Doe! Or at least resolve the cliff-hanger with a 2hr movie or as an extra on a dvd release.

#2 of 21 OFFLINE   Patrick Sun

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Posted April 26 2003 - 04:31 AM

I've said from the beginning that you don't simply cast William Forsythe (Digger) in the buddy barkeep role, and as the season went on, Digger just had too many tricks up his sleeve not to be part of the mystery/conspiracy.
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#3 of 21 OFFLINE   Jeremiah

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Posted April 26 2003 - 04:49 AM

I agree Patrick, unfortunatly I was too surprised at the twist ending.
I have seen Larry David in action, and that man is an animal, and he has to be stopped.

#4 of 21 OFFLINE   Patrick Sun

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Posted April 26 2003 - 04:58 AM

It would have been cheesy if there was a twin of Doe running the operation. But I half-expected it before Digger's face materialized.
"Jee-sus, it's like Iwo Jima out there" - Roger Sterling on "Mad Men"
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#5 of 21 OFFLINE   Andres Munoz

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Posted April 26 2003 - 06:06 AM

Wow, what a season finale. Doe discovers new abilities and Digger is the head of the Phoenix group!

I was hoping the show would become John Doe and Digger together against the rest of the world, but like Patrick said, you don't cast Mr. Forsythe himself to just be a sidekick.

This show better come back next season!!!!

Has anybody heard anything about a renewal?
Andres


#6 of 21 OFFLINE   Jeremiah

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Posted April 26 2003 - 08:16 AM

It seems that they have moved a little too fast with Digger and the Phoenix group plot b/c it is only the first season and Doe now knows his best friend is the leader of the group he has been trying to investigate. It better come back next season, or they didn't move the plot fast enough.
I have seen Larry David in action, and that man is an animal, and he has to be stopped.

#7 of 21 OFFLINE   Jon Torres

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Posted April 26 2003 - 09:02 AM

Very good episode. I didn't expect Digger at the end, but wondered where he was. Didn't you guys think it was strange how Doe went after Theresa, but wasn't followed by either the cops or any NSA agents? Also, did Digger move that cart thing with his mind? Hope the show gets another season.

#8 of 21 OFFLINE   Jeremiah

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Posted April 26 2003 - 10:15 AM

Jon, Digger moved the cart with his mind. Also, I was wondering the same thing as Doe was going after Theresa.

How did that one girl(the artist) that Doe liked die? Did it have something to do with the Phoenix or was it something different?
I have seen Larry David in action, and that man is an animal, and he has to be stopped.

#9 of 21 ONLINE   Adam Lenhardt

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Posted April 26 2003 - 11:03 AM

Quote:
How did that one girl(the artist) that Doe liked die? Did it have something to do with the Phoenix or was it something different?
It was Pheonix. They held her as a hostage in exchange for the staff. Unfortuneately, since Doe's still amnesiac he had no clue where it was. When Doe figured out their location, they killed Karen and dumped her body as they left.

...

I knew that it would be Digger as soon as the hat came off. Prior to that, I had figured he'd be the mysterious big bad for next season. It's really created a Clark/Lex dynamic between Doe/Digger. I'm fascinated to see where they take it next season. I don't see how they can keep the old Law & Order on prozac format next season (if there is one)

I mean, the fun was watching him pull obscure facts out of the air to piece together the mysteries. Now that he's psychic, it would be far more direct. The season finale has set this show to be a really epic arc and mythology. I love how they intertwined the Vatican with the Pheonix too, since it adds an extra layer. I wonder if the Pheonix staff originally belonged to Christ or if it's something more ancient like Egyptians or whatever that the Church kept for safe keeping and forgot about it.

No one on earth could have known about it, since their psychic squad would have keyed in on that immediately. All in all, a knock-your-socks-off episode. And Fox made it very clear to the show's frontrunners NOT to wrap everything up, so I'd say the show has a pretty good chance.

#10 of 21 OFFLINE   Patrick Sun

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Posted April 26 2003 - 11:05 AM

The Phoenix group kidnapped the girl, Karen, and when Doe and the police got too close, they killed her and left her for Doe to find. That episode was sort of touching in many ways. The bright future of a talented artist snuffed out so quickly without rhyme or reason (that we know of yet). That Digger was in on it really makes Karen's death even more sadder now.

So Doe has telepathic and telekinetic powers. This would get interesting...
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#11 of 21 OFFLINE   BrianW

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Posted April 26 2003 - 02:23 PM

It was a great episode. The writing has definitely improved during the second half of the season, with way fewer plot contrivances than they used to depend on at the beginning of the season.

I knew it was Digger at the end, but not because the episode was predictable. I actually thought Digger's revelation at the end was done pretty well. Instead, it was the episode previews (“You'll never believe who it is!” and “The ending is so unexpected it, will blow you away.”) that aired on FOX that ruined the surprise ending. Good grief, could they have been more blatant? (And they're doing the same thing with their 24 series previews! AAAHHHG!)

I especially liked the scene where Doe interrogates Trenchcoat. Man, that was intense.

“Now YOU have the opportunity to comply!”

Very cool stuff.

I'm hooked for the second season.
-Brian
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#12 of 21 OFFLINE   John Thomas

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Posted April 26 2003 - 06:09 PM

Good stuff.

I thought the writers worked us into a situation where it would be a bit more believable for Digger to be "the man".

Quote:
That Digger was in on it really makes Karen's death even more sadder now.


Agreed, Patrick. Now that Doe knows the identity of his nemesis, can't he talk with his police friends (Lt. Hot and Sgt. Cool as I tend to call them while describing the show to my friends) and at least seize the bar?

Who again was Digger's 'blood brother', the special ops friend?


#13 of 21 OFFLINE   Don Black

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Posted April 26 2003 - 07:10 PM

I think the whole John Doe mythology needs to be much better scripted if they expect this show to last a long time. Everything is a bit disjointed, a la X-Files, and needs more fluidity like Buffy.

All in all, a good cliffhanger.

Patrick: I too was expecting a JD twin at the end.

#14 of 21 OFFLINE   Jason Seaver

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Posted April 27 2003 - 03:46 AM

...and I'm out. I never had much interest in the whole "mythology" aspect of the show anyway - the done-in-one episodes were my favorites - but this has just gotten almost as silly in one season as The X-Files did over the course of its run.

Quote:
I've said from the beginning that you don't simply cast William Forsythe (Digger) in the buddy barkeep role.
I wonder if that was why he replaced Meat Loaf - although I'd heard that it was the decision fo Mr. Aday to leave the show after the pilot, rather than being asked to leave.
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#15 of 21 OFFLINE   Garrett Adams

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Posted April 27 2003 - 07:25 AM

Quote:
...it was the episode previews (“You'll never believe who it is!” and “The ending is so unexpected it, will blow you away.”) that aired on FOX that ruined the surprise ending. Good grief, could they have been more blatant?

That's why I never watch the next week's preview on shows like John Doe, Alias, or 24, etc. I don't have to be enticed to view the next episode on high action/drama programs that interest me.

#16 of 21 OFFLINE   Jeff*S*C*

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Posted April 27 2003 - 12:47 PM

I also thought the "revealing" was a little too soon but woah did it flip me out. Here's hoping there is a season 2 but I have a bad feeling there won't be.

#17 of 21 OFFLINE   CaptDS9E

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Posted April 27 2003 - 01:09 PM

Or someone projected something to john making him think he saw digger. Wouldnt that be something :-) Expecially since Digger and john the week before went to investigate diggers friends death. I thought during the episode watch it turn out to be johns british girlfriend. Hope its renewed

capt

#18 of 21 OFFLINE   Andres Munoz

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Posted April 28 2003 - 12:43 AM

Quote:
...and I'm out
Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Posted Image
I will still be watching.

Joey, that's a very interesting theory. Wouldn't that be something?

I agree with the previews ruining the episodes. 24 pissed me off when they showed what would happen to Lynn. I'm not watching previews anymore. Good thing I didn't watch the one for John Doe. The ending totally shocked me and it was good that I didn't need a preview to tell me that.
Andres


#19 of 21 OFFLINE   Nigel McN

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Posted April 30 2003 - 04:15 AM

Yeah enjoyed that, kept checking the time because I kept thinking, they are packing so much in, it must be about to finish Posted Image . since I hadn't seen any ads here I was quite surprised who the guy turned out to be.

#20 of 21 OFFLINE   Andrew Beacom

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Posted April 30 2003 - 05:20 AM

I figured out it would be digger a little before it happened. Still a good episode and really sets up next season.

The only danger is that it the big questions won't get answered like on X-Files. But we did have a few good years of entertainment.


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