Networking (Mac) Question (1 Viewer)

Pamela · Apr 21, 2003

At work, my department uses Macs. The rest of the hospital is PC. IS refuses to network us with the rest of the hospital, so my Internet connection is dial-up. We have our own local Mac network for the computers and printers.

I recently found out that by running the Ethernet cable into the hospital network port, I can access their T1 connection for internet. This is great because it is much faster than my dial-up. Problem is, if I'm hooked into the hospital network, I can't hook into our local network to print. I bought a Ethernet hub thinking that was the solution. I think I need a twisted pair cable to access get an internet connection through the Ethernet hub. No problem. But I realized I only have one uplink on the hub, but I have two separate networks I have to access. Don't I need two uplinks?

Do I daisy chain two hubs? Can I uses an Ethernet/usb adapter for a second Ethernet port on the computer? I can't ask IS because they won't have anything to do with our Mac stuff. Nor do I really want them to. There's got to be a solution.

Also, I can't access my Earthlink email when connected to the hospital network. I can download files from FTP sites, etc., but can only access my email through WebMail. Is this a firewall issue?

Many thanks for any insight!

Matt DeVillier · Apr 21, 2003

Pamela,

all you should need is a second ethernet interface (PCI or USB,the former being preferred). Shouldn't need to mess with any hubs. Assuming you are running OS 9.x or later, everything will be fine.

For the email, they may have blocked the port for pop email, but most likely it's just a configuration issue (do you have the right pop server set?). Any decent IS deparatment would be able to tell you if that's the case, regardless of the OS you are running. If not, you need new IS guys =P

Michael*K · Apr 21, 2003

The best way to do this is the way Matt describes...get a PCI-based Ethernet card to supplement your built-in port. We do this at work on several machines with external (outside our firewall) connections that we need networked printer access for. You didn't say what kind of machines you have, but if it's one of the PowerMac models, the door just drops down and you pop the card into one of the slots and secure it with a screw. It's a cinch.

As for the mail, your Network administrator likely has POP access blocked.

Pamela · Apr 21, 2003

Thanks Matt & Michael!

A PCI card it is. Is there a particular brand recommended?

Matt DeVillier · Apr 22, 2003

I picked up a cheap MacSense 10/100 card from one of the warehouse stores for $30 or so, which uses one a RealTec chip. No complaints with it.

Patrick Larkin · Apr 22, 2003

Pamela -

How is your current Mac network set up? Are they all connected via ethernet? Why not plug all the machines into the "hospital network ports" including the printer? Then, they'd all have internet access and you could use the existing hospital wiring infrastructure to keep your Macs talking.

After you have it set up, you can invite down your IT people and make then feel like morons.

KyleS · Apr 22, 2003

What Matt explained will fix your immediate problem but are you just causing yourself more pain?

At work, my department uses Macs. The rest of the hospital is PC. IS refuses to network us with the rest of the hospital, so my Internet connection is dial-up. We have our own local Mac network for the computers and printers.

If you dont have approval to be on the network then why plug yourself into it? Wouldnt it be better to talk with IS and work with the superiors in the hospital then shoot yourself in the foot when they find that 1) you are on the network and 2) you have equipment you purchased in a machine the hospital owns.

I cant believe that the IS department will not work with you and get you on the network but maybe they have a reason for it that we dont know about? I can tell you as a network admin that if you wanted to piss me off, going behind our back is certainly the easiest way to get yourself fired at my company.

KyleS

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Mike Sogge · Apr 22, 2003

Depending upon how your department is wired you could get a router and switch, hook your department computer to them, and then uplink to the hospital's network. This would put your department on the same subnet allowing you to share while utilizing the hospital's T1 to the outside.

I don't know how Earthlink functions, but they may have it set up on their end that only computers in their IP range have access to their POP servers. I know that my ISP at home functions that way and only allows outside mail access via their WebMail frontend.

Pamela · Apr 22, 2003

If you dont have approval to be on the network then why plug yourself into it? Wouldnt it be better to talk with IS and work with the superiors in the hospital then shoot yourself in the foot when they find that 1) you are on the network and 2) you have equipment you purchased in a machine the hospital owns.

It may be difficult to understand, but our IS department stays away from the Mac stuff. They won't touch it with a 10 foot pole (it is rather puzzling). It has become worse since our internal IS department was let go and Perot Systems took over. Major problems (plus, everything has to go through Texas).

I am the "IS department" for our department. It is in my job description. I make the decisions on purchasing equipment and software, set it up. make repairs and train the other employees. So I figured why not take advantage of the network if it is there. I'm doing it to make my job more easier and make me more productive. I spend a great deal of time uploading and downloading graphics files and photos, and doing it on dial-up just doesn't cut it! Of course, I have to admit it's nice to be able to stream WXPN.

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KyleS · Apr 22, 2003

It may be difficult to understand, but our IS department stays away from the Mac stuff. They won't touch it with a 10 foot pole (it is rather puzzling). It has become worse since our internal IS department was let go and Perot Systems took over. Major problems (plus, everything has to go through Texas).

No not difficult to understand I just want to make sure that you are not going to get yourself into a lot of trouble by doing something that you are not supposed to. It sounds as if you are doing everything that you can especially since they have a third party contractor trying to upkeep your network. It does amaze me that a Hospital would use a 3rd party company to support its computers/network.

KyleS

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Mark Brewer · Apr 22, 2003

Would being on the hospital network be an advantage to others in your department???
Does not being on the network affect your ability to communicate with other parts of the hospital???

Are there other department who would like to communicate with your department over the network???

If the answers are yes..
I would prepare a formal proposal to put your department on the network. Show the cost and benefits.

Because the outsourced IT department does not like Macs is no reason not be on the network.
_____________

Get allies, but not in subversive way, work with the IT people...

Patrick Larkin · Apr 22, 2003

I can tell you as a network admin that if you wanted to piss me off, going behind our back is certainly the easiest way to get yourself fired at my company.

Then your company has its priorities in a mess. An IT staff member should never dictate how an employee works or who gets fired. That is utterly ridiculous.

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KyleS · Apr 22, 2003

Then your company has its priorities in a mess. An IT staff member should never dictate how an employee works or who gets fired. That is utterly ridiculous.

Unfortunately Patrick, when Pamela made her first post it said nothing about the fact of her companies priorities were messeg up only that the IS staff wasnt allowing Macs on the network and that she was just plugging into the network. There could be legitimate reasons NOT to have one OS or another on your network but on its own enclosed system. If you dont have all of the resources that you need (Like high speed internet) then requesting it through channels such as Mark said would be a lot smarter then just going around people.

An IT member should not have the ability to fire someone on there own (unless that person is a direct report) but they can lead a manager to get rid of someone that is not following protocol. If someone who was not supposed to be on my network (for whatever reason) went behind the IT departments back and set themselves up without allowing us to do a risk analysis on what harm could be done by hooking up would find themselves out of a job REALLY damn quick if something were to get screwed up.

Now after getting more information from Pamela it seems that she is going about things in more the right direction but again we didnt know that from her first post.

KyleS

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Joseph S · Apr 22, 2003

Would being on the hospital network be an advantage to others in your department???
Does not being on the network affect your ability to communicate with other parts of the hospital???

Are there other department who would like to communicate with your department over the network???

The answers to the above should be yes. There's nothing more efficient than being able to keep records and imaging data accessible throughout the hospital including into OR, ICU rooms, clinics, etc. Adding an IP by MAC address or by ethernet wall part was done and managed by web/intranet access some 8+ years ago when I worked for my university's IT dept. My guess is that the problem is that the IT dept is in Tex and are most likely nothing but trained drones. You should have been restricted by having an unregistered MAC address. You weren't, so I assume they have no issue with client access.

[begin frustration]Seeing as we're talking about hospital access I would like everyone to know, that Eclipsys is about the worst designed piece of software I've dealt with. [/end frustration]

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David Lawson · Apr 23, 2003

[begin frustration] It's a Mac, not a MAC! [/end frustration]

Patrick Larkin · Apr 23, 2003

MAC in this sense is correct. He was talking about a "Media Access Control" address not a Macintosh address.

Pamela · Apr 24, 2003

Update:

Thanks to all. I installed the PCI cards this morning, plugged into the networks and, voila! We're both hooked into our network, and the hospital's. I should clarify-we're not logging into their servers. Just "borrowing their T1." Found out in order to do so in the past, IS gave out passwords. They stopped that six months ago and allowed access without the password. It is a well guarded secret, however. Well, my boss is happy because now we can be "more productive!"

And to address the point of a hospital using an outside vendor for their IS services, yeah it's dumb. We had our own department until about a year ago. We are part of a larger company and they signed a contract with Perot to provide service for all of the hospitals, so we had to do it. But it's awful. They're very selective in what they will and won't do. We have a few PCs in our department, so if we need anything, even a toner cartridge, we have to call Texas (from L.A.) It's a big mess, but the hospital had no choice. I share a PC with my co-worker for access to hospital email. It's in another room. Pain in the butt.

P.S. We asked to be networked periodically for six years, and it was never addressed. I think we waited long enough! We would still like to officially be networked so we could have access to the mail server and the print shop's Canon Fiery, but they just won't budge.

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