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Kiki DVD out-of-sync...


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102 replies to this topic

#1 of 103 OFFLINE   HowieG

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Posted April 14 2003 - 10:24 AM

It's been a long time since I posted last, but this unfortunate find makes me do it.

I have owned Kiki's Delivery Service on VHS for many years and (unlike some) was quite impressed with the english dub that Disney did for it. It almost seemed that it was intended for english.

So, when the new Miyazaki R1 DVDs were available I jumped to get them for the best quality A/V and OAR.

I have around 500 DVDs and have NEVER had one that appeared out of sync until Kiki!

It is subtle, but provable if you notice sound effects (such as broom slapping, etc). The resulting effect will definately put off many who have been told dubs stink. It does destroy some of the magic by making something seem wrong (it is, it's out-of-sync!). And, I can't get the Japanese track to engage on my Sony NS755v; it just keeps going back to English.

Also, I just got Spirited Away today as well it seems to be a beautiful transfer.

Haven't viewed Castle in the Sky yet, but I hope it's not somehow tainted...

#2 of 103 OFFLINE   Jeff Kleist

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Posted April 14 2003 - 10:31 AM

If you're having issues getting the J track to engage, I'd say it's a player issue

I sampled about 15min of the dub, and didn't see any of the things you describe.

#3 of 103 OFFLINE   HowieG

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Posted April 14 2003 - 10:59 PM

Well Jeff, I was able to access the J-Track, but only after having to stop and restart the DVD and then go thru the menus to finally do it. If I tried to just go straight to it (like I usually can do) the disc would just stop. Not so good. The other 2 Miyazaki discs work fine.

However, this verified another thing. The out-of-sync nature of this disc applies to all 3 soundtracks. One can check this by going in about 7:14 and carefully watch Kiki slap her broom. If you can slow it down and replay it over and over you will notice her hand is in the back position when the sound of the slap starts. After take off you hear the bells before seeing them. The scene with the bells will start with the sound if it is correct. Later, when Kiki and Jiji lands in the train and she closes the sliding roof door, the sound of the door precedes the event.

As I said, these are subtle but noticeable out-of-sync effects, but they shouldn't belong (at least) on this work of art.

The soundtrack is properly in-sync on my VHS print.

BTW, Castle in the Sky looks and sounds great!

#4 of 103 OFFLINE   Raphael

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Posted April 15 2003 - 08:30 AM

Sorry, but I've got to side with HowieG over here. I just popped in Kiki's and watched up to her midnight departure (one of my favorite parts of the film), and noticed what Howie pointed out. When Kiki raises her hand to slap her broom, the sound of the slap comes at the _peak_ of when she raises her hand, rather than the point of impact. To be fair, I had not noticed any sync issues until this one moment. However, I was not even looking for it when I noticed it; it just jumped right out at me.

However, I then switched to the English dub track and rewatched the scene, and noticed the same thing, perhaps a hair more in sync, but off nonetheless.

Hmm. _Still_ glad to have the film on DVD.

#5 of 103 OFFLINE   Michael St. Clair

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Posted April 15 2003 - 09:00 AM

Can somebody with the R2 or R3 version check out this broom shot?

I've got the R3 'Laputa' if anybody has something that needs comparing there.

#6 of 103 OFFLINE   Jeff Adkins

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Posted April 15 2003 - 09:18 AM

I'll check my Taiwanese R3 DVD which has both the English dub and the Japanese track. I'm very sensitive to sync problems and never noticed anything. So I have a feeling this applies only to the US release.

Jeff

#7 of 103 OFFLINE   Jeff Kleist

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Posted April 15 2003 - 10:40 AM

I see what you mean about the broom slap, I can only guess that they remastered the soundtrack for the Japanese disc, and that it was screwed up there. Everything else (Test tube pop and other sound FX) seem fine...

Checked R1, R3(hong Kong) and sub VHS

Odd, I'll bring it to Nausicaa.net's attention, they know the right people to boot the Disney machine into gear

#8 of 103 OFFLINE   TheLongshot

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Posted April 15 2003 - 04:38 PM

The R2 seems to sound right, if I'm looking in the right place...

Jason

#9 of 103 OFFLINE   Matt<>Broon

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Posted April 15 2003 - 07:39 PM

The R2 Japanese Studio Ghibli collection DVD seems fine.

I suppose my brain may not be processing things fast enough to notice of course. Posted Image
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#10 of 103 OFFLINE   HowieG

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Posted April 15 2003 - 11:06 PM

Thanks Jeff, I hope your input can make things happen...


Boy, I sure hope there's enough interest in the R1 edition of "Kiki's Delivery Service" to warrant a fix.

Many like me have waited (patiently) for years to get this title on DVD only to have it get botched.

And, to add insult to injury, many who may not see the magic of this film may just say "so, it's a little out-of-sync who cares. It's not that noticable" or something.

Oh the pain!


P.S. And no, I (and many others) can't use "Kiki" from any other region...

#11 of 103 OFFLINE   Jon Robertson

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Posted April 15 2003 - 11:27 PM

Wait a minute - what it sounds like from the responses in this thread is that one sound effect is a micro-second off. And you're demanding, what, a recall and remaster?

I'm all for keeping movie magic alive, but, jeez, sometimes you just gotta grit your teeth and move on.

#12 of 103 OFFLINE   Raphael

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Posted April 16 2003 - 12:11 AM

Considering that Buena Vista Japan refused to budge on an all-red video transfer of Spirited Away, the biggest-grossing domestic movie in Japan ever, and that the faulty transfer lasted the entire film...

I wouldn't hold my breath for a recall and fix on an admittedly minor issue.

#13 of 103 OFFLINE   Richard Waller

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Posted April 16 2003 - 12:54 AM

Sad but true.

#14 of 103 OFFLINE   HowieG

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Posted April 16 2003 - 01:51 AM

Wait a minute - what it sounds like from the responses in this thread is that one sound effect is a micro-second off. And you're demanding, what, a recall and remaster?



Actually, I'm not demanding anything, and the film is off about a half-second actually. I'm just bringing the point up that the disc IS not properly in-sync.

Hey, I can author an in-sync DVD myself. It's just plain sloppy handling of a great filmmakers work and if it isn't in-sync than it's defective. What Disney decides to do about it is their thing.

I don't like buying any DVD that is out-of-sync and one of the reasons I posted this was because of the abysmal way Disney seems to be handling Miyazaki's work (red-tint issues, out-of-sync, poor supplimental support, condescending, off-putting openings, etc.). Even the theatrical reissue of Spirited Away has had NO advertising at all in our area for this Academy Award winner and that's bad IMHO.

#15 of 103 OFFLINE   David Lambert

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Posted April 16 2003 - 01:57 AM

Guys, I watched about 15 minutes of this last night (English dub...sorry Jeff), and then turned it off. I believe it's more out-of-sync than you folks indicate. I had not read this thread yet, and now going through it I am shocked that there's not more outrage. It's very noticable all throughout, and I was seeing this at the start and then skipped ahead to when Kiki meets Osana and first stays overnight.

It's very obvious and irritating. When I calm down more than perhaps I can be more intelligent and give better examples and details. Posted Image

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#16 of 103 OFFLINE   Russell G

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Posted April 16 2003 - 02:09 AM

S**T!!

This is one release that I have been really looking forward to! I guess I'll hold of on buying till we find out exactly what Disney plan on doing.

It really is a shame, When Disney do something right, they are one of the best in the buisness, but when they screw up, they really screw up!

Is it only on the english dub? If the Japanese st plays okay, I'll still pick this up, as I'd prefer to watch it subtitled anyway.

#17 of 103 OFFLINE   Jeff Kleist

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Posted April 16 2003 - 02:10 AM

David, I think the reason why I, and most other people haven't picked up on it, and that the QC people didn't is that dialogue IS sync'd

#18 of 103 OFFLINE   David Lambert

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Posted April 16 2003 - 02:17 AM

NO! The Dialogue is what I was talking about. It is NOT synced!

Tonight I'll do some A/B comparisons with my VHS tape and see if I'm just nuts or what...
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#19 of 103 OFFLINE   Craig S

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Posted April 16 2003 - 02:47 AM

I watched the whole thing last night and didn't notice ANY sync issues. I had forgotten about this thread by the time I popped the disc in, and therefore wasn't looking for the problems. Guess I was too engrossed in the movie.

So I looked at it again this morning (English dub). The broom slap is definitely off. Way off. No doubt, this is a screw-up.

Quote:
After take off you hear the bells before seeing them. The scene with the bells will start with the sound if it is correct
I disagree with this assessment. The bells seem right to me - you hear them when she hits the tree, which is before they are seen, but that action (Kiki running into the tree) IS what makes the bells sound. I think this is correct, as you also hear bells when she hits the two subsequent trees.

The sliding hatch in the train does seem a bit early, but it's hard to tell because it's so quick. It's definitely not as bad as the broom slap.

I then looked at the scene Dave mentioned with Osana. I didn't see any problems at all. Indeed, I watched about 10-15 minutes this morning and other than the broom slap and sliding train door everything sounds fine. I think we have a few badly-timed effects, not an overall sync problem.

Just to be clear, I'm not discounting the more severe reports, but I wonder if there are player-specific issues here? The report above was based on my Sony player in the bedroom. When I checked it again on the JVC in my main system, the two problems (broom & door) seemed more pronounced.

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* It's not what a movie is about, it's how it is about it.

* No good movie is too long, and no bad movie is short enough.

* No good movie is depressing, all bad movies are depressing.


#20 of 103 OFFLINE   Craig S

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Posted April 16 2003 - 02:51 AM

Quote:
NO! The Dialogue is what I was talking about. It is NOT synced!
Dave, on my players, the dialogue is synched just fine - at least as well as it can be on a dub (voices start & stop with lip movements).

What is your player? Definitely sounds like the problem is exacerbated on certain players.

Three truths about movies, as noted by Roger Ebert:

 

* It's not what a movie is about, it's how it is about it.

* No good movie is too long, and no bad movie is short enough.

* No good movie is depressing, all bad movies are depressing.






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