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CP72 and DVD-A Bass management probs?


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#1 of 11 OFFLINE   Larry Marq

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Posted April 08 2003 - 12:45 PM

I've read a few articles here about bass management probs and DVD-A w/ the Panny CP72. Can somebody explain this to me? I know it has a setting for large and small speaker settings. Set to small, signals below 100hz go to the sub. Is there something else with DVD-A that is a problem?

Thanks, Larry

#2 of 11 OFFLINE   TanD

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Posted April 08 2003 - 11:04 PM

the Panny CP72 has no bass management for DVD-A at all, the speaker setting only apply to DD, DTS internal decoder.

#3 of 11 OFFLINE   Charles J P

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Posted April 09 2003 - 02:00 AM

Yep, the best bet for any mortal man (without tons of cash) is just to hope that most of the bass is recorded in the "LFE" channel on a DVD-A disk. Or, get an outlaw ICBM, but considering the cost and the fact that you would need two sets of 6 interconnects, you would end up spending more on that then a CP-72 costs.

#4 of 11 OFFLINE   Larry Marq

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Posted April 09 2003 - 04:35 AM

Wow...this is confusing...please bear with me here.
How did you figure the speaker size applies only to DD/DTS? Is that for DD/DTS that comes out of the analog jacks only. Digital out isn't affected by CP72 speaker size right?

So...if speaker size doesn't apply to DVD-A and I have my Denon 3803 set to small &80hz, (here's where I get confused...) do I lose the low freq's that would be normally passed to the sub? Should I set my speakers to large for DVD-A (Klipsch RF3II series)?

Bottom line questions...

1.Where should I set my speakers for DVD-A?
2.How should I set speakers on CP72 if I use digital out for DD/DTS?

I hate being ignorant Posted Image

Thanks, Larry

#5 of 11 OFFLINE   Charles J P

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Posted April 09 2003 - 06:18 AM

Larry,

Quote:
How did you figure the speaker size applies only to DD/DTS?
Its just a fact. Its one of the current downsides to multichannel audio. (also I have a CP72) There are very few players out there that do any bass management or time alignment on DVD-A or SACD content and they cost MEGA bucks right now. Here is how it works. First of all, I assume you know that DVD-A only outputs over the 5.1 analog outputs on the back of the DVD player. You must have a receiver with multichannel inputs in order to hear the DVD-A track. Now, many DVD-A disks also have a DD or DTS track on them so peopl can play them in regular DVD players through the digital output. If you are using the digital output, you are not getting DVD-A but one of these lower resolution tracks. If you are using the analog outs, you need to realize how the 5.1 outputs and 5.1 inputs on your reciever work. This is basically an passthrough. All it does is amplify the signals coming from the DVD player. So since bass management is not performed in the player, then each of the 5.1 speakers is just playing whatever was recorded on that track. So, you can leave your speakers set to small on your receiver if thats how you want it setup for DVD playback, but when you play a DVD-A and switch to the 5.1 inputs on your reciever, each speaker will be getting whatever signal was recorded on that speakers channel on the disc which could be any frequency from 20Hz to 20kHz. Now, the people who created each disk could be smart and filter everything below 80Hz over to the .1 channel when they mix the recording, but they dont have to, and most likely dont.

#6 of 11 OFFLINE   Jeff O.

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Posted April 09 2003 - 06:27 AM

Larry,
I will try to help you out, even though I don't have your specific equipment. As far as I can tell, bass management for DVD-A is, at present, not very reliable. In general (and I believe this applies to the 3803) no bass management is done on the multichannel analog ins that you would use for DVD-A. Therefore, your speaker settings when playing DVD-A through the analog inputs in the receiver would be useless and you should leave them as you have them set for the current bass/time alignment of your other sources.

The speaker settings and bass management (where available) on the DVD player apply only to the 6 channel analog outs. If this isn't applied to DVD-A, and you use the digital out to let your receiver do the DD/DTS decoding, there is no need to set the speaker settings in the DVD player for DD/DTS. However, these settings may be used to set relative volume levels on the analog outs that would apply to DVD-A.

Again, this is the general scheme of things, but I don't know about the specifics of your setup.

Jeff

#7 of 11 OFFLINE   Brian L

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Posted April 09 2003 - 09:18 AM

As an owner of a Pioneer 45A, all I can say is "Welcome to my world!"Posted Image

Sorry, couldn't resist what with all the BM hell most all universal player owners are enduring.

BTW, ICBM's rule!

BGL

#8 of 11 OFFLINE   Larry Marq

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Posted April 09 2003 - 01:46 PM

Thank you all VERY much! I'm good to go... (I think Posted Image ).

It sounds great to MY ears the way it is... I just wanted to know what was going on "behind the scenes" out of curiosity. Perhaps when/if my ears become more sophisticated, I'll look into that ICBM missle launcher thing... until then, thanks again!
On a side note, is the CP72 rated very well for DVD-A?

Larry

#9 of 11 OFFLINE   LanceJ

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Posted April 09 2003 - 02:50 PM

Has anybody here ever used a frequency analyzer to see what kinds of bass frequencies are present on a dvd-audio's non-LFE channels?

And while not using five "full-range" (i.e. down to 20Hz!) speakers might result in a slight sag in bass output, will it really make things sound truly bad? I honestly can't beleive the mixing engineer is going to place 20-30Hz bass in the non-LFE channels. They just can't be that dumb......because that is what the LFE channel is there for!

LJ

#10 of 11 OFFLINE   DerrickW

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Posted April 18 2003 - 04:29 AM

If you need bass management (ie you don't have 5 full-range speakers or want to use your sub anyway), then you'll need the Outlaw ICBM or the HK525 receiver which is the only receiver to do bass management for 6 and 8 channel analog inputs.

#11 of 11 OFFLINE   LanceJ

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Posted April 18 2003 - 03:05 PM

Make sure the Harmon/Kardon uses a 192kHz/24bit processor (if it is a digital bass manager).

LJ