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PB2+ pic's are up !


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#41 of 65 OFFLINE   ChadLB

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Posted April 17 2003 - 08:27 AM

[quote] Shit my 20-39PC has probably less impact than a PB1 [quote]

Why would it have less impact?

#42 of 65 OFFLINE   Chip E

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Posted April 17 2003 - 08:46 AM

Why would it have less impact?


I'm not positve that it does or doesn't really.. but the PB1 has the ISD driver where my sub doesn't (and has less power-190 watts vs. 325 watts for the PB1).
- Chip

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#43 of 65 OFFLINE   Britton Johnson

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Posted April 18 2003 - 12:13 PM

I agree, a PB-1 Plus would fit the bill perfectly for me. Nobody wants to think they are buying the very bottom model of anything. For my purposes the PB-1 size is perfect (wouldn't want anything bigger) and the price is just below what I would be willing to pay. I think if SVS put a plus driver in a PB-1 cabinet (tuned properly) this would be their biggest seller. A good looking, box design sub, that is not the bottom of the model inventory and with the SVS name....now there's a winner! Btw, has anybody ever run an HSU VTF-3 head to head against a PB-1? Probably not because the PB-1 is so new but just thought I would ask.

#44 of 65 OFFLINE   Alex Prosak

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Posted April 18 2003 - 12:24 PM

I don't think most people who purchase PCi or CSi subs even think about their sub being the "bottom" of the SVS lineup. They think they're getting a much better sub for the price than most any other sub manufacturer around can produce. Heck, if my HT room wasn't so friggin' big, I'd gladly pay less to get a smaller sub. I don't think my budget will ever allow for a system that can truly meet reference levels (particularly for the sub, read B4) but I'd like to get as close as I can. For me, that is the PB-2+. Bring it on guys!Posted Image

#45 of 65 OFFLINE   Edward J M

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Posted April 19 2003 - 12:27 AM

[quote] I don't think most people who purchase PCi or CSi subs even think about their sub being the "bottom" of the SVS lineup. They think they're getting a much better sub for the price than most any other sub manufacturer around can produce. [quote]
Well put, Alex - I agree wholeheartedly. My friend has a 25-31PCi and it shames subs at twice its price. I never feel like I am compromising when I visit his house for a movie.

BTW, just how big is your HT room?

Ed
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#46 of 65 OFFLINE   Mike_Ch

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Posted April 19 2003 - 12:29 AM

Any word on other finishes for the PB range of subs? I'm thinking wood veneer or somesuch other one Posted Image

Cheers,
Mike

#47 of 65 OFFLINE   Chip E

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Posted April 19 2003 - 03:30 AM




Just the textured black finish on this line... works for me.. Posted Image
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#48 of 65 OFFLINE   SVS-Ron

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Posted April 19 2003 - 03:50 AM

Last things first! A wide ranging list of updates and replies follows: Mike, We are always considering alternatives in finish, improvements in performance, lowering costs (or in some cases working hard to at least keep them from going up ;^) Right now we figured getting out the basic black (and improving THAT all the time too) and keeping the supply lines full is the priority. It won't be right away but we hear you loud and clear. Black is the overwhelming favorite in speaker finish, but it's hardly the ONLY choice folks would like to see. Alex, Right. While the cylinder "form factor" isn't everyone's cup of tea, even the entry level PCi subs (recalling that $549 is probably more than the average home movie watcher has in his/her entire system!) will shame pretty much anything at that price point, and not a few subs costing thousands more. If we can't say this about any model we debut ... we don't release it! The PB2-Plus is no exception. Final production samples of the enclosure are in hand now. We're just juggling production dates and hope to have a more or less hard schedule of pre-order and ship dates next week now. To say that doing all this and keeping production and supply in North America, AND remain competitive (or MORE than competitive ;^) is a struggle is an understatement. Not a single major SVS component has been farmed out to off-shore suppliers and we remain proud of that, especially as the economy remains soft and jobless figures for skilled work continue to rise in the US. Britton, As with alternative finishes, the potential model combinations we consider (nearly on a daily basis as demand, our own R/D activities and supplier offerings change) is nearly unlimited. We're in the slow process of fleshing out our "box sub" line up, much as we have the nearly exhaustive cylinder line up. Suffice it to say we're very much attuned to the idea that single woofer, very high output box solutions would be good sellers for SVS. As it is now, just the three (counting the nearly ready PB2-Plus) box subs we do offer are unsurpassed by any OEM offerings we know of. The $600 PB1-ISD will more than hold its own against anything remotely close in price. Not that we're resting Felix. We NEVER rest ;^) Every design has thousands of man hours of design, and more critically, extreme real-world measurements to validate every single detail in design. And the progression of one model "jump" to the next is affected by a myriad of factors. If we could do them all in a nice logical price-point stair-step we would. It just doesn't work that way when the properties of say, a newly designed voice coil, might radically change what you planned the day before. If SVS is rigidly committed to one thing, it's flexibility ;^) You see for sale the best of what's ready for prime time. Full stop. Chad/Chip, Certainly the older SVS "PC" sub-woofers (before the "i" was added thru a combination of enclosure, woofer, grill and amp improvements) would probably be outdone by a current PB1-ISD (which has the latest of our PCi technology). If compared to those newer PCi subs, say a 25-31PCi that's been tuned to a lower 22Hz, the PB1 and PCi's are virtual sonic twins. Great questions. We're working hard to make sure the answers are the best thing we can do to improve the state of the art in the industry. Ron

#49 of 65 OFFLINE   Britton Johnson

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Posted April 19 2003 - 05:44 AM

Thanks for the response Ron. I know you guys don't like to be drawn into a us vs them battle but lets just pretend for a second that you guys didn't have the great reputation you have and you were trying to win me over to buying a PB-1 over an HSU VTF-3. Assuming roughly the same price what reasons would you list for buying the SVS? Also, out of curiosity, do you guys buy leading edge competitor products to see if you can glean any new ideas or see how your products stack up against them? I talked to one of the Chief engineers over at Velodyne and he admitted to owning several of the competitor's products for research and comparison. Thanks, Britton

#50 of 65 Guest_Anthony_Gomez_*

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Posted April 19 2003 - 07:47 AM

Britton, I am not sure which of the two is a better sub, but no doubt both are really good. I have no experience with HSU customer service (which could be really good), but I know SVS's customer service seems too always keep it's customers smiling really big.Posted Image
All issues seem to get worked out. This is one of the biggest reasons I would vote SVS. Perhaps someone can chime in on how the Customer Service is over at HSU.
Anyone have any experience with BOTH of the companies?

#51 of 65 OFFLINE   Edward J M

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Posted April 19 2003 - 12:14 PM

[quote] but lets just pretend for a second that you guys didn't have the great reputation you have and you were trying to win me over to buying a PB-1 over an HSU VTF-3. Assuming roughly the same price what reasons would you list for buying the SVS [quote]
Britton:

There was a lengthy thread on this subject a few months ago when the PB1-ISD was first introduced. You can peruse that entire thread at your leisure, so I'll try to be succinct and answer your question.

First, the HSU VTF-3 costs $910 shipped from HSU. The SVS PB1-ISD costs $640 shipped from SVS. That is not "roughly the same price" - $250 isn't chump change in this highly competitive segment. Another way to look at it - the HSU costs about 42% more than the SVS.

With that said, in terms of user features, clean SPL capability, and rated extension - these two products are very, very close in performance. They are also both excellent subwoofers, and the VTF-3 has a well deserved reputation as a great sub - and so does the PB1-ISD.

The only advantage the HSU offers over the SVS is the ability to plug one of its 3" ports and tune the sub for 18 Hz instead of 22 Hz. However, plugging a port does result in a 4 dB loss in max SPL capability.

In a nutshell, except for the ability to lower the tune, the SVS virtually matches the performance of the HSU for about 2/3 the price.

When SVS introduces the PB1-Plus, it will likely cost about the same as the VTF-3, and rest assured it will outperform the VTF-3 by a significant margin in all measurable parameters.

SVS does not introduce any product with the intention of matching the competition at any given price segment - from the outset, their philosophy has always been to beat the competition in performance and price, and they have thus far succeeded with every product release.

Both companies offer a lengthy trial period (45 SVS, 30 HSU) and a money back guarantee (all you pay is return shipping). SVS is not afraid to step into the ring with the VTF-3, even with the MUCH less expensive PB1-ISD. If you buy both, when the dust settles I doubt you will find the VTF-3 offers $250 worth of a real world performance edge over the PB1-ISD.

Regards,

Ed
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#52 of 65 OFFLINE   David Lorenzo

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Posted April 19 2003 - 12:36 PM

If I were choosing between the SVS and HSU I would buy both and return the one I didn't like as much. If you are willing to lose some money on shipping, this is the way to go.

#53 of 65 OFFLINE   Alex Prosak

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Posted April 19 2003 - 01:35 PM

[quote] Well put, Alex - I agree wholeheartedly. My friend has a 25-31PCi and it shames subs at twice its price. I never feel like I am compromising when I visit his house for a movie.

BTW, just how big is your HT room?

Ed [quote]

Ed,

My HT room is ~6000 cubic feet. It's in the basement so its carpet on a concrete slab and its open to other areas of the house, namely the living room which has a volume considerably larger than the family room, ~9,000-10,000 cubic feet.


#54 of 65 OFFLINE   felix_suwarno

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Posted April 20 2003 - 06:14 AM

thanks for addressing my question, ron.

#55 of 65 OFFLINE   Chip E

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Posted April 21 2003 - 03:24 AM

O'm think'n preorders just might start tonight.... Posted Image
- Chip

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#56 of 65 OFFLINE   Edward J M

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Posted April 21 2003 - 04:34 AM

[quote] My HT room is ~6000 cubic feet. It's in the basement so its carpet on a concrete slab and its open to other areas of the house, namely the living room which has a volume considerably larger than the family room, ~9,000-10,000 cubic feet. [quote]

Hi Alex:

Well, that certainly IS a large room and a large adjoining space - lots of air to move. But there are some things we can swing in your favor to maximize the return on investment.

To the extent possible, try to locate the sub away from any open spaces and keep it fairly close to the key listening positions. Also initially run it with all three ports open in the 25 Hz tune for maximum output potential.

If you try the above, I think you'll be pretty amazed at what the PB2+ is capable of - even in a 6,000 ft3 basement.

Regards,

Ed
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#57 of 65 OFFLINE   Alex Prosak

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Posted April 21 2003 - 04:44 AM

Ed, Thanks for the tips. I'll definitely keep it close to the listening area. Due to placement issues with our audio rack (WAF) corner loading is not an option. I had been thinking about plugging one of the ports to tune the sub to 20 Hz but I'll certainly play with it too. Tom or Ron, any words of wisdom? Alex

#58 of 65 OFFLINE   Chip E

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Posted April 21 2003 - 05:52 AM

Ed,

that was Alex you were responding to, not me Posted Image
- Chip

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#59 of 65 OFFLINE   Edward J M

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Posted April 21 2003 - 06:04 AM

Sorry Chip/Alex - edited my post to reflect the correct name. Brain cramp, I guess; thanks for pointing that out.

Alex, it is my intention to use the 20 Hz tune also. I just thought initially you might want to try the 25 Hz tune to see just how much SPL you can eek out of the PB2+ in that huge room, and then tune it down to 20 Hz if you discover you have a surplus of volume (which I think you will).

Chip - BTW, what is the basis for your post on the PB2+ pre-orders starting tonight? That would be pretty cool, but last I heard SVS was working out some final touches with the suppliers and they didn't want to rush things. Remember - perfection first, deadlines later. Posted Image

Ed
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#60 of 65 OFFLINE   Chip E

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Posted April 21 2003 - 07:45 AM

Just an itchy,wishful hunch Ed.. I can certainly wait. I'm still excavating my basement floor out. I'm 70% done. Posted Image
- Chip

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