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PB2+ pic's are up !


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#21 of 65 JimmyK

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Posted April 09 2003 - 07:03 AM

Quote:
In all likelyhood ill probably get the PC plus, just cant decide between the 20-39 and the 16-46.

As an owner of a 16-46PC+, if I had to do it over again, I'd probably opt for the 20-39PC+ for the extra output headroom.

I bought the 16-46PC+ because I was afraid I would be missing something below 20hz. In reality, in the vast majority of recordings, there is nothing down there. And if there was something down below 20hz, I don't think I would miss it as 20hz is pretty low already!

That said, I kept my 16-46PC+ even though I could have exchanged it for the 20-39PC+ and have not regretted my decision.

You just need to decide if you want a little lower extension, or a little higher output cabability.

JimmyK

#22 of 65 TommyL

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Posted April 09 2003 - 07:17 AM

Ed...when comparing the b4+ and 2- pb2's, I wanna say that TomV has had more than 2500 watts on it...and I know it was ready for morePosted Image

#23 of 65 james e m

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Posted April 09 2003 - 09:58 AM

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The hoped for release time frame for the PC Ultra is this summer and it will only be available in one size. Price <$1500.


I had hoped it would cost a little less that that. That's almost a thousand dollars more than the CS Ultras. Ouch. Hopefully, there will be a discount if you buy dual Ultras.
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#24 of 65 Alex Prosak

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Posted April 09 2003 - 10:10 AM

Tom just told me under $1500, he never said how much under $1500. I wouldn't be surprised to see it come in around $1300-$1350. Don't hold them or me to this. I'm just basing the estimate on CS Ultra and amp package prices. For all I know it could come in at $1499.

#25 of 65 Edward J M

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Posted April 09 2003 - 10:15 AM

Quote:
Ed...when comparing the b4+ and 2- pb2's, I wanna say that TomV has had more than 2500 watts on it...and I know it was ready for more


Well, the dB12 driver is rated for around 500-550 watts input. I would say the most anyone should push a B4+ would be 2500 watts. Sure, it might soak up more wattage, but I doubt that would translate linearly into a higher SPL. The VCs would probably be getting very hot above 2500 watts and I'm pretty certain the drivers would start to suffer from power compression.

Regardless, this is still bench racing and it's fun, but keep things in perspective. Whether or not dual PB2+ can slightly outgun a B4+ (or vice versa) is purely academic. We're talking upwards of 125 dB bass peaks in a typical HT room at that point, and this is clearly far beyond what is normal or required for comfortably loud playback.

These two subs were designed primarily for the user who has a much larger than average HT room and needs more SPL than even a single Plus or Ultra can deliver.

Regards,

Ed
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#26 of 65 TommyL

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Posted April 09 2003 - 02:26 PM

true EdPosted Image just fun thinking about the highest end...I did think about duo pb2's, but the B4+ will suit my room just fine. it'll blend in a bit better..ya know how the wife getsPosted Image

#27 of 65 Alex Prosak

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Posted April 16 2003 - 06:14 AM

Tom or Ron,

Anything new on pre orders yet? I can't wait to hook one of the bad boys up.Posted Image

Alex


#28 of 65 Edward J M

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Posted April 16 2003 - 06:41 AM

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Anything new on pre orders yet? I can't wait to hook one of the bad boys up.


Me too - I've pretty much decided to pull the trigger on the PB2+ myself. I don't need it, I just WANT it. Expect a full blown (literally) review. Posted Image

Regards,

Ed
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#29 of 65 Tom Vodhanel

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Posted April 16 2003 - 09:16 AM

Hi Guys,

We are just finalizing a couple of *minor* issues....stuff like recessing the amp flush with the enclosure. No show stoppers, but a small list of things that we want to take care of now to make the product as close to perfect as possible before we start taking any pre orders for it. We are also insuring the enclosure will have the potential for some *versitility*.


Tom V.
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#30 of 65 Alex Prosak

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Posted April 16 2003 - 09:23 AM

Thanks for the update Tom. I take it then that you're still two or three weeks away from setting up a pre order list? I appreciate that you guys don't rush new products out the door until they're perfect. Whenever they're ready, I will be too.

#31 of 65 Chip E

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Posted April 16 2003 - 09:44 AM

We are also insuring the enclosure will have the potential for some *versitility*.



Hmmmm.. First thing that came to mind was... maybe the ability to upgrade the drivers to TV-12's ? Posted Image

Ed,

a little more bench racing.. with one port plugged on a PB2+, do you think it would still be as loud as a 20-39PC+ ? If not, i wonder by how much.. What would you think. In fact, if TV or Ron is around, please, chime in Posted Image
- Chip

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#32 of 65 SVS-Ron

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Posted April 16 2003 - 10:48 AM

Alex,

We're really just waiting a final production date for the enclosures. We're pushing hard on that while those loose ends are tied up (just ask our supplier how many times we've called in the last two weeks ;^). Once we get that we'll at least put the pre-order date and price up on the News page. It's not going to be a huge pre-order period. We know there's alot of interest in this sub but in the $1,500 price class there are only so many buyers.

And those that know what this sub is bringing to the table know it's going to be worth the wait. 8^)

Ron

#33 of 65 Edward J M

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Posted April 16 2003 - 11:28 PM

Quote:
Ed, a little more bench racing.. with one port plugged on a PB2+, do you think it would still be as loud as a 20-39PC+ ? If not, i wonder by how much.. What would you think.

Chip:

I wrestled with this very question as I was deciding on the PB2+. I didn't want to trade extension for sheer SPL.

I think an important factor for me in the decision making process was that I always run my 20-39PC+ with all three ports open and the SS filter set to 20 Hz, so I'm used to a 20 Hz tune.

With that said, a PB2+ with one port plugged (and SS/EQ switch set to 20 Hz) will still have more port area, and twice the driver displacement compared to a 20-39PC+. In the 20 Hz tune mode, I would estimate a PB2+ will still outgun a 20-39PC+ by 3-4 dB at 20 Hz and above.

Here's food for thought: What would the PB2+ FR look like with all three ports open and the SS/EQ switch set to 20 Hz? Clearly, the tune of the PB2+ is derived from both a custom EQ curve at each setting AND by plugging a port. Just how much each contributes to the state of tune remains to be seen. I will be running FR sweeps in these five tune modes just to satisfy my own curiosity:

1) 25 Hz three ports open
2) 20 Hz two ports open
3) 16 Hz one port open
4) 20 Hz three ports open
5) 16 Hz three ports open

Knowing SVS, this sub was not designed to disappoint. Frankly, I think it will come very close to dual cylinder performance in a single enclosure, and provide true Reference Level playback capability in an average HT room. When I get mine, I'll provide a detailed review with subjective impressions for HT and music, FR charts in various states of tune, and SPL peaks on hot DVDs with time stamps, etc. I'm pretty excited about this upgrade!

Regards,

Ed
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#34 of 65 Chip E

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Posted April 17 2003 - 12:01 AM

Really good reply ED. Thanks. I don't want to trade extension for sheer spl's either. I don't have quite the in depth knowlage of you and others of subwoofers. I basically know how to calibrate one with my spl meter and not much more (FR's,graphs,etc..). One curious thing to me is the idea of setting the ss filter to 20hz with all ports open ? What happens there ? How does changing the filter setting without plugging a port affect a sub ? Obviously you don't have the sub but, is there a general idea going on here ?

BTW, i've been running an SV 20-39PC w/original driver for the last two years...tuned to 18hz. This is in a really small room.. 10'6" X 11'2" I'm digging half my basement out an additional 2' and will end up with a finished room of 20'5" X 14'5" with an average ceiling height of 7'4" (split at the power Lam beam- 7' one side, 7'6" the other half). I had to undermine my block foundation completely and poured solid concrete walls down 2' X 20" wide.... Quite the job but, i keep plugg'n along Posted Image
- Chip

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#35 of 65 Edward J M

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Posted April 17 2003 - 04:12 AM

Chip:

The use of equalization in the box enclosure clearly represents a departure from SVS' design philosophy with the cylinder subs, and is a necessary concession to the packaging and space constraints of the box type enclosure.

The enclosure size would simply exceed what SVS was envisioning for the PB2+ without some mild EQ assistance for the lower states of tune. Witness the size of the much larger and passive B4+, which is tuned to 25 Hz with no EQ and with all ports open.

So the tune switch on the PB2+ provides double duty - it alters the SS filter setting, and it also activates a specific EQ curve for each setting. So a PB2+ with all three ports open and the SS/EQ switch set to 20 Hz (or even 16 Hz), might see an increase in low end extension even without plugging a port (or two). Tom V would be best to answer that question in detail.

Remember, plugging a port is also necessary to keep the drivers properly loaded and prevent bottoming in the lower states of tune. I'm sure experimenting with and mismatching SS/EQ settings and port plugs will be great fun and perfectly safe at moderate playback levels, and might even result in a really nice looking "custom" in-room FR. But if you will be pushing to Reference Level, it would be wise to follow conventional guidelines and plug a port for the 20 Hz state of tune to help protect the drivers.

While EQ admittedly does use some power that would otherwise be available for a linear SPL increase, I am quite certain the EQ curve is pretty mild for each lower state of tune, and with nearly 900 watts of continuous power available from the new Indigo BASH amp, I don't think amp power will be a problem for the PB2+!

If you are still soldiering on with an original driver 20-39PC, I think you will be in for a literally staggering performance increase with the PB2+ in ANY state of tune. Some quick math indicates the PB2+ in a 20 Hz state of tune will outgun your original driver 20-39PC by a solid 12 dB at any frequency above 20 Hz. Since a 10 dB increase is generally (this doesn't hold completely true at the lowest frequencies) perceived as doubling the volume, a PB2+ will quite likely and literally sound twice as loud in your room as your current 20-39PC.

Regards,

Ed
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SVS

www.svsound.com

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#36 of 65 Chip E

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Posted April 17 2003 - 04:47 AM

Ed,

I don't even know what to say at this point except WOW! (talk about bench racing, lol..)

Posted Image
- Chip

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#37 of 65 Steve Morgan

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Posted April 17 2003 - 05:02 AM

I just sold my Servo 15 after 3 years of good bass. I currently have a Von Schweikert S/3 tuned to 20hz with a A/b 900 watt amp.I purchased one of the original 20-39cs and drove it with a channel of a Parasound 2003a. I eventually sold it and replaced it with the VSA sub. I hope the PB2+ astonds me. After long discussions with Tom I'm sure it will. I have a 7500+ cubic ft. room so it will take moving lots of air to get close to reference. The PB2+ from what I understand will be like 2-3 Servos, couple that with the VSA sub and I think I will get close. I researched this for almost 2 months talking to all the custom sub makers. The Tumult driver looks promising but I have seen no real world numbers or reviews on a finished sub with this driver.The B4 was tempting but I think the PB2+ will do the job. Now the excruciating wait!Posted Image

#38 of 65 felix_suwarno

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Posted April 17 2003 - 06:34 AM

the jump from pb1 to pb2+ is too much, i think. does svs have something in between?

#39 of 65 Alex Prosak

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Posted April 17 2003 - 06:45 AM

There is a pb+ in the works but it isn't expected until sometime toward the end of summer/fall.

#40 of 65 Chip E

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Posted April 17 2003 - 06:49 AM

the jump from pb1 to pb2+ is too much, i think. does svs have something in between?



Too much? Na... Shit my 20-39PC has probably less impact than a PB1 and i'm going for the PB2+.. There is only one SV box sub right now.. the PB1. The PB2+ will be available soon. Personally, i can wait but it's tough when the upgrade bug's in full tilt Posted Image


EDIT:

There's two box subs (oops) forgot the B4 ! Posted Image
- Chip

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