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What are your thoughts on the Samsung 50" DLP?


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#1 of 18 OFFLINE   Je-P

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Posted April 04 2003 - 03:25 PM

I'm torn between either getting this or waiting for the new HCN line 55" with integrated ATSC HDTV tuner. I heard that there is no burn in with DLP, so does that mean it's safe for me to play games on it? Also, what advantages does DLP offer over standard HDTV? I see that it offers 720p, which my Xbox will take full advantage of. Also I do like that it's only about 90 lbs as opposed to the 250 or so of the Rear projection. I'm just wondering, is it worth the price ($3000 or so) as opposed to the $1800-2000 that the 55" non-DLP will cost me.
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#2 of 18 OFFLINE   Bob McElfresh

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Posted April 05 2003 - 04:15 AM

Quote:
I heard that there is no burn in with DLP, so does that mean it's safe for me to play games on it?

Uhhhh I dont think this is true.

I thought burn-in affected the back-side of the display surface. All display types (CRT, Rear Projection, DLP-Rear Projection) have this so it's a common issue. But as long as you dont play more than about 8 hours per day of the same game for weeks at a time, I doubt you will have the problem. (I've done a lot of Halo/MechAssault on my 50" RPTV with no problems).

Quote:
Also, what advantages does DLP offer over standard HDTV?

These are kind of independent.

DLP:

A normal RPTV has 3 guns/light sources that combine to create an image.

A DLP has 1 gun/light source that goes through a color-wheel to create an image. The simpler optics, and the fact that the light reflects off of a silicon chip with millions of mirrors makes it cheaper, removes some convergence issues, and gives you the potential to have a totally-digital system up to point of display.

This link to a DLP Demo should help explain things.

#3 of 18 OFFLINE   Craig W

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Posted April 05 2003 - 07:23 AM

I think burn-in is a non-issue on DLP. The reason burn in happens on CRT is that the phosphor surfaces are unevenly burned. DLP creates images through turning small micro mirrors on and off and color by syncing the mirror states with a color wheel.

#4 of 18 OFFLINE   Craig W

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Posted April 05 2003 - 07:37 AM

Je-P,

You may want to consider waiting for projector technology to continue to drop in price. If the set pictured above does not have DVI with HDCP(hi-def copy protection) it may not be able to display copy writed content in 720p or 1080i. So you may want to hold off.

Yes a ninety pound DLP set is much better than a 200+ pound CRT, but even better is a front digital projector between 10-20 pounds. Of course this is only an option if you can easily control light.

I am holding off until I can get a HD2 DLP chip, aka "the Mustang chip", for a reasonable price in the next couple of years. Its expensive now, but with all the leaps and bounds this technology has made in the last couple of years its only going to get cheaper. It can only get cheaper, especially if they eventually come out with a 1920 by 1080 chip. Could 1080p be around the corner? One can only hope. Whether content providers allow us to use that resolution remains to be seen.

Good luck with what ever decision you make.

#5 of 18 OFFLINE   Dean Wette

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Posted April 05 2003 - 08:47 AM

I have the 61" Samsung DLP. It's an awesome set. Anamorpic DVDs and HDTV look fabulous. There are no phospor elements in the display, so there's nothing to burn-in. I watch 4:3 TV on it all the time without stretching or zooming, and the black side bars have not cuased any problem.

Even out of the box, the PQ is excellent. Tweaking it a bit usng Avia makes it better. I'm having mine ISF calibrated on Monday and expect it'll improve even more, especially in terms of black levels.

I'm completedly happy with the Samsung DLP and recommend it. The only downside is lack of discrete input codes, so I can't create remote macros to switch video and audio together. But the newer HLN series just coming to market are supposed to now have that feature.

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#6 of 18 OFFLINE   Je-P

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Posted April 05 2003 - 02:07 PM

I considered a front projector setup, but the main room is in my living room and controlling the outside light is next to impossible. Right now I'm leaning more towards the rear projection, but I was just wondering if the DLP would be worth the extra money.

#7 of 18 OFFLINE   Dean Wette

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Posted April 06 2003 - 03:08 AM

If you have problems with too much ambient light, the DLP is definitely worth the extra money. The room where I have my Sammy DLP has a large glass sliding door facing East to the balcony on one side and is very open to interior rooms on the other sides.

With my previous Marantz 54" RPTV, watching during the day required drawing shades, even with indirect sunlight. The Sammy DLP is much brighter and is far more watchable in daylight. I only have to draw shades when the sunlight shines directly into the room onto the screen.

Even at night I no longer feel I have to turn off lights everywhere to get a good picture. But next week my Ideal-Lume backlight from Cinemaquest is due to arrive, which should provide me ideal lighting conditions for nitetime movie viewing. :-)

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#8 of 18 OFFLINE   Rob Tomlin

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Posted April 06 2003 - 11:33 AM

From what I understand you should not have any burn in issues with the DLP.

I am assuming that you have viewed one of these babies? I compared it directly to a Pioneer Elite, and I definitely thought the DLP was sharper. However, some may describe this as having a "digital" appearance, and not being as "film like" as CRT. It comes down to personal preference.

I would go with the DLP!

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#9 of 18 OFFLINE   KevinFC

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Posted April 07 2003 - 06:35 AM

The HD2 chip is what is currently in the Sammy DLP's. The HLN series features some advancements and a better looking bezel. There also isn't a burn in problem on these sets like LCOS. The HLN series is due out May or June, but I have yet to read any reviews or see anything about them on Samsungs website. Overall the sets looked nicer at CES and it suppose to have DVI with HDCP.
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#10 of 18 OFFLINE   Max Leung

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Posted April 07 2003 - 05:27 PM

What is the color wheel speed on the new Sammy DLPs?
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#11 of 18 OFFLINE   Parker Clack

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Posted April 08 2003 - 03:23 AM

I have seen this DLP projector in action and I love its overall picture. I just cannot justify an extra $1,000 for it over a compatable set using CRT. I am waiting to see what is around the corner. If they get one of these sets in a 65 incher in the sub $3,000 price I know I will be standing in line to get one.

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#12 of 18 OFFLINE   ChrisTheg

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Posted April 08 2003 - 03:27 PM

To put some mysteries to rest BURN IN CAN NOT HAPPEN ON A DLP!!! Like some of you have said DLP is not a a phosphorus based technology therefore there is no way for it to burn in. Another thing is that the HLN617W has already arrived and is available for purchase. The difference between the HLM and HLN is the scalers used. They are dramatically better in the HLN. The color wheel is 5-X. Yes DLP is better with room with more light but you can also compensate for that with a different screen. Lastly there is DVI!
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#13 of 18 OFFLINE   Dean Wette

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Posted April 08 2003 - 10:52 PM

The HLM617W has the same internals as the HLN617W, including the DNIe and FL2300. I know because I have one.

The 61" model has always had these internals. The smaller models are the ones that got upgraded for the N series and even the later-production Ms already had it.

For the 61" there is no difference between the M and N models that I know of.

Dean
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#14 of 18 OFFLINE   Max Leung

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Posted April 09 2003 - 04:44 AM

What is the rated lamp-life on these sets? Front-projector DLPs tend to fall in the 1000-3000 hour bulb life range. I remember reading about 10,000 hour life (similar to CRTs), but that seems unbelievable to me.
Mahatma Gandhi, as you know, walked barefoot most of the time, which produced an impressive set of calluses on his feet. He also ate very little, which made him rather frail and with his odd diet, he suffered from bad breath. This made him...a super-callused fragile mystic hexed by halitosis.

Gamesh....

#15 of 18 OFFLINE   Dean Wette

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Posted April 09 2003 - 11:33 AM

On my HLM617W lamp life is rated at 6000 hrs. New bulbs currently sell for $200-300. Un like, CRTs merely replacing the lamp (bulb) makes the TV just as bright as the day it was new. I imagine by the time I need a new bulb, they'll be cheaper.

Dean
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#16 of 18 OFFLINE   DerekF

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Posted April 10 2003 - 06:00 AM

Quote:
I'm completedly happy with the Samsung DLP and recommend it. The only downside is lack of discrete input codes, so I can't create remote macros to switch video and audio together. But the newer HLN series just coming to market are supposed to now have that feature.


Dean - You probably already know this, but a workaround I use for this sort of thing is to start the remote macros with "TV channel up". This will usually put the TV on to your antenna input, no matter what source it is on. Follow your macro program with "input, input..." until you get from antenna to the source you want, then switch to "receiver, source X"....

My television also does not have discrete input codes, yet with one macro press, I can switch audio and video together.

Just my $.02, tax included.

Derek

#17 of 18 OFFLINE   Dean Wette

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Posted April 10 2003 - 09:58 AM

Quote:
You probably already know this, but a workaround I use for this sort of thing is to start the remote macros with "TV channel up".


Yeah, that's the first thing I tried. Unfortunately, the TV thinks it's smarter than me, so if I select TV channel up when some other input is available (actually entering channel number since 'channel up/down' doubles as 'input select up/down' on the remote), I only get a message on the screen that says "Not Available."

I've tried every possible button press to get the TV into a known state (input), but to no avail. Bummer!

Thanks for suggesting it though.

Dean
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#18 of 18 OFFLINE   GeorgeAB

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Posted April 17 2003 - 03:35 AM

Craig W,

1080p reflective chip display technology is here now. The new 57" Toshiba LCOS retails for about $8k and scales everything to its native resolution, 1920 x 1080p. It has been reported that it will not presently accept a 1080p input, however, just 1080i. The bulb is rated for 8,000 hours! Sony's version of a 1920 x 1080p chip has been announced as becoming available in a US display product by the end of this year. It is also LCOS but they insist on calling it something else. Sony claims it will achieve 3000:1 contrast ratio.

I have seen the Toshiba in a retail display. They were showing 'Ice Age' from a D-Theater tape and the resolution was a wonder to behold. As usual, the store had not done much toward calibrating it. The blacks were blue-ish and there were some video processing artifacts that the salesman said were not present on the sample he viewed at CES. The artifacting was minimal on the HD signal but more noticeable with DVD.

The screen material has a little bit of a sparkly texture to it. It noticeably glistens like a high-gain front projection screen. The screen was much finer in texture than the current batch of Fresnel/lenticular screens used with HD RPTVS. The viewing angle is much better with this set as well. If you can go see one, it is quite a revelation on HD material.

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