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Anamorphic Question I can not find the answer anywhere.


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#1 of 14 OFFLINE   Mike W R

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Posted March 30 2003 - 06:48 AM

Ok I completely understand what an Anomorphic DVD is and I understand OAR's. This is not going to be a "why is there black bars on my 16X9 TV" Question.

I do have a 16 X 9 TV. I have noticed that some of my Non-anamorphic DVD's behave in a different ways. For example when I play "Crimson Tide" or "Rounders" which both are non anamorphic they both respond to the TV like they were. In other words there are no Black bars on the sides of the screen. "Crimson Tide" plays like a normal 2:35 movie would with limited black bars at the top and bottom and "Rounders" plays with no black bars at all like a 1:85 movie should. I do not have to use any Zoom mode for this effect.

However when I watch a movie such as "Free Enterprise" which is non anamorphic as well it puts black bars on the sides and I have to use the TV's Zoom mode to view it as I would an anamorphic DVD.

Is there a term for this...I am really confused because I thought all non anamorphic DVD's would have black bars on the sides on a 16 x 9 set.

Thank you for any help.....

Mike
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#2 of 14 OFFLINE   Jeff Kleist

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Posted March 30 2003 - 07:19 AM

Thye area probably encoded progressively (do you have a progscan player?) and your TV is locking into Full mode upon detecting it

#3 of 14 OFFLINE   Mike W R

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Posted March 30 2003 - 07:24 AM

Yes my player is progressive scan.
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#4 of 14 OFFLINE   Qui-Gon John

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Posted March 30 2003 - 08:01 AM

Actually, reading your post, I'm confused. You say you thought all non-anamorphic movies should have black bars on the sides? The only time I know of getting 'gray' bars on the side is when you select 4:3 mode on the TV.

Now, you make an interesting point and I hope others here can chime in. You say that CRIMSON TIDE, when viewed via your progressive input appears, in FULL MODE, as though it were an Anamorphic movie (at least size wise - I know true Anamorhpic would have better resolution). My DVD player is only connected via S-Video so I can't get progressive output. But, is this true, that hooking it up via component and progressive would do this? If so, I may want to re-wire. And I so want an Anamorphic version of CRIMSON TIDE! (I have my DVD video hooked up via S-Video right now because I go through a SIMA Color Corrector and my SVHS Player/Recorder).

#5 of 14 OFFLINE   Mike W R

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Posted March 30 2003 - 08:20 AM

Yes, I am hooked up through component connections. Maybe this is the reason???

And yes the resolution would be better if "Crimson Tide" was truly anamorphic, but this question for me did not even come up until I viewed DVD's such as "Free Enterprise" which has black bars on the sides. I guess the question is what is the difference between these two DVD'd. I just wondered if there was a term. For instance if this was a post about "Free Enterprise" you could warn someone that not only it is it non anomorphic it is also ....(insert term here).....so 16x9 TV's wont expand it and it will have black bars on the sides.

FYI my TV will not allow me to go to 4X3 mode (or any other mode other than full) unless I turn the progressive scan off on my DVD player.
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#6 of 14 OFFLINE   Mike W R

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Posted March 30 2003 - 08:26 AM

I should clarify, The example I used for "Free Enterprise" has black bars on sides and on the top and bottom. Just like you see on most examples of what a non anamorphic picture on a 16X9 set looks like.
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#7 of 14 OFFLINE   Steve Schaffer

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Posted March 30 2003 - 10:29 AM

Mike,

What brand and model tv and dvd player are you using?

Some players have a "scaling" feature that automatically resizes non-anamorphic dvds so they will be presented on a widescreen set just like an anamorphic disc is, without having to use a zoom or stretch mode on the tv.

These players rely on a "flag" encoded on the disc to determine when the scaling feature should be activated.

Many non-anamorphic dvds do not have this flag. My guess would be that you are using a player with the auto scaling feature and that Crimson Tide is properly flagged and Free Enterprise isn't.

I've used a JVC player with the auto scaling feature with my widescreen set.
When playing a properly flagged non-anamorphic dvd (Some Like it Hot), it would appear on my set just like an anamorphic one would, with the set in Full mode. When playing a non-anamorphic dvd without the flag, it would appear on screen with bars on the sides as well as at top and bottom. Examples of improperly flagged non-anamorphic dvds are Titanic and Fargo.
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#8 of 14 OFFLINE   Mike W R

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Posted March 30 2003 - 11:19 AM

Thanks Steve, I bet that is it.

I have a JVC XV-S502SL so the fact you have a JVC as well make sense.

I have just never seen the topic of the flag come up before. I would wonder if there is a way to tell if it is flagged before purchasing (I.E. Mission Impossible 1). Though not as sharp an an anamorphic title its not as bad as you would think. And for those DVD is non anamorphic limbo I would be tempted.....or maybe not.

Mike
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#9 of 14 OFFLINE   Steve Schaffer

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Posted March 30 2003 - 01:11 PM

Mike,

That player does have the flag-dependent scaling feature. The Panasonic RP-91 also has scaling, and it can be manually turned on for incorrectly flagged dvds. It also costs a lot more than the JVC.

So far I've found no way of determining from the packaging whether a nonanamorphic disc is correctly flagged.

I would also agree that the scaling is quite good. I watched Some Like it Hot on the JVC several times and did not even know it was not anamorphic until I put it in my Panasonic CP-72, which does not do scaling.
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#10 of 14 OFFLINE   Mike W R

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Posted March 30 2003 - 01:29 PM

Yeah same happened to me with Rounders. I had no idea it was not anamorphic. That is a nice feature for a DVD player. To bad the one I have can not be turned on manually.
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#11 of 14 OFFLINE   Ken N.

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Posted March 30 2003 - 04:42 PM

Originally posted by Mike W R

Quote:
"Rounders" plays with no black bars at all like a 1:85 movie should. I do not have to use any Zoom mode for this effect.

Rounders is 2.35:1, at least my copy is.

Your player might be zooming too much.

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#12 of 14 OFFLINE   Mike W R

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Posted March 31 2003 - 12:40 AM

Your right Ken, I was going from memory it is 2.35:1. Sorry about the confusion.
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#13 of 14 OFFLINE   Scott Merryfield

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Posted March 31 2003 - 02:16 AM

Quote:
I would also agree that the scaling is quite good. I watched Some Like it Hot on the JVC several times and did not even know it was not anamorphic until I put it in my Panasonic CP-72, which does not do scaling.

The only problem with watching Some Like It Hot with scaling is that this is a 1.66:1 aspect ratio film. Therefore, the top and bottom of the image will be cropped. Just one more reason to hate non-anamorphic 1.66:1 transfers -- non-defeatable autoscaling players.

FYI, I own a Panasonic RP-91, which also performs scaling of non-anamorphic material. However, I can manually turn the scaling on or off, as well as setting it on automatic. I have about 75 non-anamorphic widescreen titles in my collection, and I would estimate that around 25-30% are not flagged properly, although I've never done an actual count.

#14 of 14 OFFLINE   DaViD Boulet

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Posted March 31 2003 - 02:32 AM

Mike,

As others have said, it's your DVD player auto-scaling the "4x3 letterboxed flagged" DVDs to 16x9 internally and then sending this "upconverted 16x9 anamorphic" image to your TV and your TV displays it like a normal 16x9 image.

If you ran the same signal to your TV 480I...the scaling on your player would be bypassed and all native non-anamorphic images would indeed by side-boxed on your TV requiring you to "zoom" them all.

My Panny rp91 also has this auto-scaling feature which I love. For 4x3 lbxed discs that aren't flagged properly to turn on the "auto" function I can manually select the "zoom" option on the DVD player so the TV is always displaying what looks to it like a native 16x9 signal no matter what...and everything is properly displayed in the correct aspect ratio.

Only problem transfers are 1.66:1 4x3 encoded titles as you end up cropping something to fit the 1.78:1 frame. I'm with Scott on this one. It ticks me off that major lables like Warner and MGM won't 16x9 encode their 1.66:1 titles which is a win-win for everyone regardless of their TV's shape (you gain resolution...and 4x3 TV owners see no side-boxing due to overscan).

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