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In-wall subwoofers?


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32 replies to this topic

#1 of 33 John Gates

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Posted March 25 2003 - 10:36 AM

OK, DIY guys, here's a bizarre question for you:

Can I design and install subwoofer drivers into the front wall and get good results?

I am getting ready to upgrade my system (currently running 2 SVS 20-39's with original drivers), and I am looking at:

1. SVS B4+
2. SVS Ultras (dual)
3. VMPS Larger Subs with all the options (pair)

The front projection wall (where my screen is) has a garage on the other side, so I was thinking tonight I might be able to install drivers into the actual wall and have some kind of box or tube or enclosure behind the wall extending into the garage on the other side.

Has anyone ever done this? Could I hope to get good results? Is this a crappy idea?

My budget is $1500 to $2000 (excluding amplification), though I currently have a Samson S1000. I'd want something that rivals or exceeds performance of the above-mentioned systems in both extension and SPL. This is primarily a movie system but is also used for music (looking for tight and musical as well as authoritative LFE).

Thanks,

John G
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#2 of 33 TimForman

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Posted March 25 2003 - 10:53 AM

I don't see why not. I've actually thought about doing the same thing. Just do the math and make sure it's solid. Should be great! The best part is you can use the money on the drivers because you won't need to build some "beautiful" cabinet. A couple of Tumults should fill the bill. One concern would be if they were firing directly at the screen would the screen move? Could they be slightly off to one side or split up?

#3 of 33 John Gates

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Posted March 25 2003 - 11:08 AM

I would have them off to the side or below the screen. There is plenty of room in the wall, and plenty of room behind it. My screen actually pulls down in front of a staircase, so the boxes or cylinders (if necessary) would be underneath the stairs in the garage.

Do you have any recommendations for design, materials, cost, etc? How much is a tummult driver? What are the output estimates? So many questions....

Thanks!

John G
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#4 of 33 ThomasW

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Posted March 25 2003 - 11:20 AM

This is a garage wall mounted 4 Tempest IB outlet box that fires through a common wall with the HT. Note that a stack or line array of drivers will work fine as well.

Posted Image

In the photo below the larger the dark rectangle below the screen for the FPTV is the outlet for the IB sub

Posted Image

IB's provide outstanding sound quality and are a piece of cake to build.

Note that several builders have put their IB's in stairwells. There's a link to a photo gallery of IB installs on the "Cult" forum page.

With a fraction of your stated budget for drivers, you could lay waste to the performance of any of the subs you listed in your first post

#5 of 33 TimForman

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Posted March 25 2003 - 11:24 AM

These are the specs.
PARAM VALUE
Qms 4.3 Re 3.2 ohms (1.6 Ohms per VC)
Qes 0.39 Le 4.2 mH (2.1 mH per VC)
Qts 0.36 Mms 345 grams
Fs 19 Hz BL 18.5 N/A
Vas 160 liters Sd 749 cm^2
Xmax 34 mm one way EBP 48.7
SPL 87.1 dB @ 1W/1m Distortion <3% @ 28mm one way excursion
Pmax 1600W per IEC 268-5
PRICE $499
The Tumult is designed for a smaller sealed enclosure somewhere in the neighborhood of 100L. They're new on the market but are very promising.

#6 of 33 TimForman

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Posted March 25 2003 - 11:27 AM

Kinda figured you'd show up on this one Thomas. I almost mentioned your name when John started this thread. I didn't know if he wanted an IB running in his garage or not. Guess it doesn't matter if your in the house watching a movie. Hard to beat 4 Tempests for ~$600.

#7 of 33 Dave Milne

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Posted March 25 2003 - 11:31 AM

The question is... would his neighbors want an IB running in his garage or not...

#8 of 33 ThomasW

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Posted March 25 2003 - 11:33 AM

Couple drivers mounted in a stairwell IB. If space is limited a pair of AV-15's or Tumults would be a pretty good alternative to 4 Tempests

Posted Image

Dave

With the door down the bass isn't as big as issue as one might imagine. No one has posted on the forum about neighborhood issues with garage mounted units. I'm sure that if problems came up I'd be the one of the first to hear about it.....

#9 of 33 TimForman

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Posted March 25 2003 - 11:35 AM

Yeah, some people got no sense of humor. Posted Image

#10 of 33 Dave Milne

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Posted March 25 2003 - 01:08 PM

Sorry, I forgot the smilies... Posted Image Posted Image

#11 of 33 Rob Formica

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Posted March 25 2003 - 02:39 PM

IB (Infinite Baffle) is the way to go if you have the space. Check out Thomas's links, lots of good info on there... IB works on the theory that the woofer will be at it's flattest responce in the biggest (Infinite) box possible. I don't think the Tumult would be the most economical choice... as you are looking for maximum displacement for your cost and one of Tumults major features is that it can deliver alot of displacement in a small box... (you 've got plenty of room). I think a better choice would be two AV15's or even a couple of Lambda 15LE... they will give you more displacement at a lower cost .

I wish i had the room... I'm jealous... Posted Image
*Shedding light by means of the combustion of snake oil* PC-ABX

#12 of 33 TimForman

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Posted March 25 2003 - 04:39 PM

You guys are a bad influence. I could build an IB if I could just get up the gumption. My wife would be "very displeased" if I were to build another sub. And you know what life would be like then. Posted Image

#13 of 33 PaulDF

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Posted March 25 2003 - 04:48 PM

I've always wondered...

Just how much and how accurate of bass is heard on the backside of an IB??

#14 of 33 ThomasW

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Posted March 25 2003 - 04:53 PM

Paul

For all intents and purposes the rear wave is the same as the front wave

#15 of 33 Cam S

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Posted March 25 2003 - 08:00 PM

Quote:
the rear wave is the same as the front wave


Geez, you could have two different audio setups but have only one sub, that would be interesting. Though you could only use one system at a time. I'm really interested in trying an IB sub as I have an outside storage room just on the other side of the wall where my Shiva sub is sitting. I would be absolutely perfect for a pair of AV12's or Av15's. The temptation is killing me!
MOOOOOO

#16 of 33 Bryan Michael

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Posted March 25 2003 - 11:46 PM

2 av 15 will fill a 15 by 25 room niceley. i have 2 with a samson s1000 greatsetup. total cost was just under 1000 with all meterals. and the av15 are a very cllo looking sub and are can be gotten for 165 at pre order.
there are olny 2 types of people in the world the irish and thoes who want to be irish

#17 of 33 ThomasW

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Posted March 26 2003 - 01:09 AM

Quote:
Geez, you could have two different audio setups but have only one sub, that would be interesting
Actually I do this. I have a little AM/FM radio in the basement woodshop. It's speakers are wired out of phase (this puts them in-phase the big IB). When the upstairs tuner and shop radio are tuned to the same station the expressions on the face of people listening in the shop are priceless Posted Image

#18 of 33 John Gates

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Posted March 26 2003 - 05:28 AM

Wow! Lots of great information, folks!

I had not considered the "infinite baffle" idea before yesterday, now I can't seem to get enough.

Thomas, your box design is very interesting, and I'm reading the archives at the "cult" website. Those are answering a lot of questions.

The big concern I have (becuase I know the wife will have it) is volume levels in the garage. Sounds like things in the garage will get very loud. I'm not sure at this point whether that will be acceptable.

My room is in the basement with the garage on the same level. The projector screen occupies the common wall between garage and HT room.

It seems that to minimize the interaction with the wall, a cube with opposed drivers is recommended.

Still reading.... Thanks for the information!

John G
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#19 of 33 ThomasW

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Posted March 26 2003 - 08:20 AM

John

Rear wave SPL's with an IB are the same as those of the front wave. Understand that IB bass is nothing like the boom, boom, boom, sounds you hear from car stereo or a poorly designed home sub.

BTW, what's the issue with bass in the garage? Someone sleeping in there? Posted Image

#20 of 33 Hank Frankenberg

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Posted March 26 2003 - 09:05 AM

When the upstairs tuner and shop radio are tuned to the same station the expressions on the face of people listening in the shop are priceless

Sheeze, some guys will stoop to any trick to drop jaws.

BTW, what's the issue with bass in the garage? Someone sleeping in there?

Maybe his wife is worried about disturbing the neighbors. Garage doors tend to NOT contain sound very well. I try to not use my table saw late at night so I won't bother the neighbors.





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