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Onkyo 700 , Yamaha 1300 , Denon 3803 Comparison


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#1 of 20 OFFLINE   GucluA

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Posted March 23 2003 - 05:44 AM

I am planning to build a HT in a large roof room , and trying to get the best receiver , i know some Thxed receivers around , but i am keen on these receivers (the recievers around 1000$-1500$) ,

Denon 3803 or 3802
Yamaha 1300
or Onkyo 700

any ideas , which one should i go and why , advantages , disadvantages (I will use it %80 for dvd and %20 for music) ...


Thank you so much ...

#2 of 20 OFFLINE   JimC_A

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Posted March 23 2003 - 09:59 AM

We love our 1300. I considered the same models as you and a couple more. I went with the Yamaha. I'd have to hear another brand with my exact setup in our house to be convinced we could have better sound. Go with your gut instinct. If it's your first HT, I'm sure you'll be happy with either of your choices.

#3 of 20 OFFLINE   GucluA

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Posted March 23 2003 - 08:53 PM

Thank you so much ,

#4 of 20 OFFLINE   John-Miles

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Posted March 24 2003 - 02:45 AM

I bought the Yamaha 1300 after comparing it to the marantz 7300 and i dont regret it one bit.

I havent listend to the denon or th eOnkyo though.

just so you knwo i got my Yamaha for 1100 plus tax here in canada, so that price is of course in canadian dollars. if you are in the states you should be able to get the yamaha well under 1000 US
Cheers

John

#5 of 20 OFFLINE   ChrisAG

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Posted March 25 2003 - 02:12 AM

John,

Can you be more detailed on why you liked the Yamaha 1300 over the Marantz 7300?

Personally, I prefer the Marantz sound for music, but since the 1300 has better hookup options with an additional AV input and Composite Video to S-Video conversion, I may recommend the Yamaha for a relative of mine who is more interested in movies than music.

#6 of 20 OFFLINE   John-Miles

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Posted March 25 2003 - 03:00 AM

Freaking Hell my browser ate my reply..... so this one is goign to be a bit shorter.

listening to both receivers with the identical speakers i ahve (PSB Alpha Intro's) it was my opinion, and the opinion of a musician friend of mine that the Yamaha sounded better, it delivered cleaner more distinct sounds at higher volumes with all channels driven. In particular we noticed this with Metallica's DVD-A disc on the track Wherever I may Roam, which is a very bass heavy track. the yamaha just had better music reproduction. that beign said i am very familiar with that entire disc so the difference were more aparent to me, but also on that track in particular my friend who is not very familiar with metallica also noticed the cleaner sound.

both units were available to me at the same price so that was not a factor.

the source player was a yamaha S2300 and like i said it was all listened to at the same time, we just swapped out cables and bang went to the next receiver.

the marantz had a few nice features like the DTS 96/24, but the Yamaha also had benefits, as well the yamaha seemed to me to be of a better build quality, the little details were taken care of like a detachable power cord.

and finally like i said all channels driven the yamaha seemd to ahve a better power supply, thats the only reason i can think of for the better sound of the yamaha on the dvd-a discs especially since that track really has lots of bass and we cranked the volume, (it was still at a very comfortable listening level though)
Cheers

John

#7 of 20 OFFLINE   Rich Wenzel

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Posted March 25 2003 - 06:20 AM

Wow John, I find that you listend to Wherever I May Roam, willingly quite disturbing Posted Image

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#8 of 20 OFFLINE   Mike Up

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Posted March 25 2003 - 06:31 AM

I'd suggest the Denon AVR-3803 over the RX-V1300.

I own a Yamaha RX-V2095 and also had a RX-V2300(one class above the RX-V1300). They both sound good but get distorted at higher levels. Around 40% - 50% of the volume, both became shouty and their bass thinned very badly. Soundstage also compressed. Since music is my priority, all auditions were done in stereo with speakers set to large and subwoofer set to no(no bass management). I thought the distortions were room induced from reflections and resonances. I've owned the RX-V793, RX-V995, and currently own the RX-V2095. I upgraded to the RX-V2300 but returned it because of cosmetic flaws and a BM defect on 'all channel stereo'. Other than the 'all channel stereo' BM flaw, the RX-V2300 performed beautifully "EQUALING" my RX-V2095 which had a MSRP of $700 MORE!

Being I was disappointed with Yamaha's declining quality control, I returned the defective RX-V2300. I had an earlier defective Yamaha receiver, the RX-V596 which had BM problems also.

I went with Denon this time and bought the AVR-3803. Since the RX-V2300 performed no differently than the RX-V2095, I compared that directly to my AVR-3803. The RX-V2300 was also compared directly to the RX-V2095, all comparisons done in my system were head to head with 2 channel, stereo music.

The Denon did not exhibit any of the distortion that the Yamaha had in volume at 40% - 50% and above. The Denon DEFINITELY played much CLEANER at much higher levels with the same sonic integrity as it did at much, much lower levels. I went all the way up to +7db on the AVR-3803 and it played cleanly with no distortion. That is roughly 70% of it's volume range. It's max is +18db.

With normal listening levels where the Yamaha didn't distort, the Denon clearly had better soundstaging, imaging, and a more refined and airy treble that offered more resolution. The Yamaha was more compressed, harsh, and forward in the upper registers compared to the more refined sound of my Denon. Now, I do own the Yamaha, as I do the Denon. Both are excellent receivers. The Denon AVR-3803 is just a better receiver IMO and 'unlike' it's earlier predecessors which I chose Yamaha over.

Of course the above is what I found with my own receivers, in direct head to head comparisons. Others may have came to different conclusions based on their own experiences.

I suggest strongly that you do your own head to head auditions and arrive at your conclusion.

Here's one thought, the Yamaha's only have one surround back channel where the Denon has two. Two is recommended by Dolby and THX. I thought one would be sufficient but it wasn't. When we sit directly in front of the speaker, it's sound in vague and fuzzy. With 2 speakers, this won't happen as is why Dolby recommends 2. With 2 the sound 'is that much better' IMO. The sound is not fuzzy but is more focused in creating a better 'rear' soundstage to create more believable pans and rear imaging. Just my opinion, but you should try this to find what you think sounds best. Denon's AVR-3803 has a setup option to use 1 or 2 back surround speakers, so don't think you "HAVE TO USE" 2 speakers. If you will be sitting off to the side of the one speaker, then you wouldn't have problems, as that's the purpose of having 2 speakers.

Have a good one and good luck with your decision.

#9 of 20 OFFLINE   RobCar

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Posted March 25 2003 - 07:58 AM

If it's between the Denon and the Yamaha, certainly don't overlook the big difference in MSRP, assuming you'd buy one or the other from an authorized dealer.

#10 of 20 OFFLINE   John-Miles

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Posted March 25 2003 - 08:20 AM

Distuurbing? well maybe but I love that track
Cheers

John

#11 of 20 OFFLINE   ChristopherBer

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Posted March 25 2003 - 08:41 AM

I do not think the Onkyo is the same class as those two recievers but rather the Onkyo 800 is.

#12 of 20 OFFLINE   Evan M.

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Posted March 25 2003 - 10:38 AM

The yamaha rx-v 2300 is usually the receiver that competes with the denon 3803, not the 1300. However when I had the same decision a year ago, yamaha 1200, 2200 or denon 3802, I thoght that both yamahas sounded far better and more dynamic than the denon. Like I have said in previous threads the denon sound is a little too boring for me. Too laid back. however many people prefer this, I personaly do not. For my findings of the comparison, take what Mike said earlier except substitute "Denon" with "Yamaha" and vise -versa. Him and I think the did pretty much the same type of comparisons but came up with a different receiver. The same reasons I preffered my Yamaha over the denon are the same reasons he preffered his Denon over the Yammie. It proves to show you the extreme importance of auditioning. Good luck.

#13 of 20 OFFLINE   Mike Up

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Posted March 25 2003 - 12:01 PM

Evan,

Come on man, no disagreeing with me.Posted Image Posted Image

Subjectivity is the name of the game, and auditions are the way to win.Posted Image

#14 of 20 OFFLINE   Evan M.

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Posted March 26 2003 - 02:50 AM

Mike, LOL, sorry bud. You are right in when you say the Denon is a great receiver. It really is. It is my second favorite 1000$ (approx.) receiver out there. I just put the edge to the Yammie. I actually had to chuckle to myself last night when I posted my reply. I was thinking that you must think I hijack all of your posts. I hope you realize that isn't the case Posted Image.

#15 of 20 OFFLINE   Adam.Gonsman

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Posted March 26 2003 - 06:25 AM

If your budget stretches up to the $1500 range, I would also be looking at the RX-V3300. When I went to look at receivers a couple months ago, I kind of had in the back of my head to get a 3803, mainly cause of it's very extensive feature set. When I started auditioning, I was mainly interested in the 3803 and 2300. They were in my opinion pretty equally match. The 3803 had a better feature set (like component upconversion) but I did feel the 2300 was just a little cleaner in sound. Probably seeing the frustration and indecision on my face, my dealer asked if I could swing a few hundred more. I said I probably could if it was justified. He smiled and proceeded to demo the 3300. It just completely blew the other two away. In my opinion, it wasn't even close. I was instantly convinced.

Now one thing I'll mention, is that I don't listen to anything at extreme volumes normally. So when I auditioned, I was focusing more on how clean and rich the sound was rather than how loud it could go before the amps tapped out. I have since pushed my 3300 pretty hard on occasion for friends (and to establish bragging rights Posted Image ) and have not heard any distortion or compression up to around -15. This has mainly been with 2 channel sources though and also without any other receiver to compare to.

Anyway, I just thought I'd throw that in. It's a little unusual (compared to other brands like Denon) that Yamaha offers so many models so close together at this price range. (i.e. look at the difference in price between the 3803 and the 4803 or 4802, I haven't kept up with Denon releases)

#16 of 20 OFFLINE   MatthewJ S

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Posted March 26 2003 - 04:52 PM

I sell both denons and yamahas and right now ,i feel, the 3803 to have to many qc issues to recommend it.....and I think the Yammies in this class sound better...my 2 cents....
that receiver sounds great demo'd through my computer speakers!

I bought the best ones, my buddy would never steer me wrong .He's not trying to make a commission off me and Cambridge Sound's factory direct pricing means that I got a great deal!

It must be a good deal all the people on the net...

#17 of 20 OFFLINE   CurtisC

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Posted March 26 2003 - 11:33 PM

I tried em' all,funny the Denon to me was far superior,yamaha was tooo thin,I don't sell,just buy.If you spend 500.00 more the yamaha competes.

#18 of 20 OFFLINE   karthikS

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Posted March 27 2003 - 02:19 AM

I have a yamaha 1300. One issue with the yamahas..

Even though they have 192/24 DACs for all channels, they will only produce 2-channel stereo sound for digital inputs greater than 48 khz sampling. I confirmed this with yamaha reps.

So forget about high resolution multi-channel digital audio. I know DVD-A & SACD can only be input in analog, but what about future DVD-video sound tracts? So the yamaha receivers are not future proof. I don't know about Denons regarding this.

#19 of 20 OFFLINE   Mike Up

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Posted March 27 2003 - 05:56 AM

karthikS,

So what your saying is that analog signal goes through analog to digital conversion only at a resolution of 48Khz/20bit.

My Yamaha RX-V2095 only has 48Khz/20 bit ADCs(analog to digital converters).

The Denon AVR-3803 has 192Khz/24 bit analog to digital conversion on analog signals. It also has Alpha 24 processing on digital inputs, so a 44.1Khz/16 bit signal(say from a CD)gets upsampled to 192Khz/24 bit resolution.

The Yamaha's multichannel analog inputs don't have any analog to digital conversion and will maintain the DVD-A's or SACD's resolution. There is no bass management on the multichannel inputs. The same is true of the Denon AVR-3803's multichannel inputs.

Have a good one.

#20 of 20 OFFLINE   karthikS

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Posted March 28 2003 - 03:39 AM

No Mike.
I wasn't talking about ADCs or analog input signals. I was saying that inspite of having 192/24 DACs for all channels, if a multi-channel DIGITAL signal with a sampling rate greater that 48khz is input to the receiver, the Yamahas will output only 2-channel stereo sound.

When i called Yamaha customer service, their response was that right now there aren't any standards that allow for higher sampling frequencies for multi-channel DIGITAL sound, which is true. DD & DTS specify 48 khz sampling rate(except for DTS 96/24). But in couple of years, with the blue-ray DVD technology, we could see higher resolution multi-channel sound format. In which case, the yamahas will output stereo sound.

So their 192/24 DACs for all channels is just a marketing gimmick.