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AVM-20 and Parasound combo...Interconnects?


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#1 of 27 OFFLINE   Paul Gere

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Posted March 21 2003 - 02:05 PM

If you're reading this, you probably have a an AVM-20 paired with a Parasound amp. That's the setup I've got and I'm wondering about interconnects between the two. Currently, I'm using Analysis Plus Copper Ovals and the sound is pleasing, but I'd prefer an equally smooth connection and broad soundstage with slightly more high end presence/air. IF it helps, all seven of my speakers are Paradigm Studio Reference.

What IC's are you using in your AVM-20/Parasound combo? What do you recommend for me?

Thanks,
-Paul

#2 of 27 OFFLINE   Chu Gai

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Posted March 21 2003 - 03:30 PM

what you're asking for out of an interconnect just isn't possible. virtually every interconnect is flat to well beyond the limits of human audibility and the only electrical specification that means anything is capacitance. as your distance increases, or were you to use a passive preamp, then you'd be looking towards low capacitance cables.
if you're looking towards enhancing your soundstage, i'd start with experimenting with speaker placements combined with a critical examination of your room in order to deal with reflections.
air...jeez, what is air...some attribute it to tubes. go to guitar center and pick up a Behringer Ultra Q and stick it between your two units. then you can either bypass the tubes or variably increase their interaction. it's an analog unit and comes with parametric equalizaiton.

#3 of 27 OFFLINE   Paul Gere

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Posted March 21 2003 - 03:52 PM

Chu,
...thanks...?

#4 of 27 OFFLINE   wayne p

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Posted March 21 2003 - 04:37 PM

I would define air as the perceived space between, or definition of, the various instruments or voices producing the specific piece of music. Room treatment and speaker placement go a long way here as does the ability of the hardware to cleanly and realistically reproduce the recording. Making a system/room too sterile however produces great air but not a musical result, IMHO.

I would agree that you are unlikely to detect any audible difference between reasonably well constructed interconnects.

Wayne

#5 of 27 OFFLINE   Chu Gai

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Posted March 22 2003 - 12:06 AM

paul, that's really what it comes down to. there's no magic in them interconnects. the little that might happen with an interconnect is that there might be a slight increase, decrease in the voltage going to your amp. the only thing that's going to result in is perhaps a tiny increase/decrease in the volume of your speakers. when people hear slight variations in volume, the interpretrations of that vary widely. once levels are matched, it's been found that people have been unable to successfully differentiate between them in controlled, unsighted testing.
this is not to say that using one as opposed to another can't have an electrical effect. it's just that the electrical effect doesn't translate to issue of audibility, especially as you've stated. if one interconnect results in being flat out to 45k Hz and the other to 39k Hz, from the point of audibility, you just can't tell.
i appreciate your desires to maximize and improve your system. this though is not the way to do it. provided this is what you're going to stick with then your improvements will lie in improving your speaker placements as well as working on your room.
however if this answer is not to your liking you'll find a rabid bunch of believers over in the cable section of audioasylum. they will most certainly help you spend your money.

#6 of 27 OFFLINE   Brett DiMichele

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Posted March 22 2003 - 01:01 AM

I didn't like the air in my setup.. Too Laid Back... So I
went on the iternet and bought a container of genuine florida
canned air.

My reasoning was that florida gets a lot of sun shine so
thier air must be more "vibrant" or "forward" rather than
my stale and cold Pennsylvanian air.

Posted Image
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#7 of 27 OFFLINE   Lee-M

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Posted March 22 2003 - 01:13 AM

Gentlemen (and ladies?),

I have found the impact from different interconnects to be solely dependant upon the connected components' susceptibility to the impact provided by said different cables.

I can tell you, from my own limited component experience, combined with conversations with and reviews by higher-end users, that cables DO make a difference, but

1. It depends on the synergy between the components (how many possible combinations of components do you think there are? It staggers the mind to conceive of it),

2. A familiarity with the source material (and some better recordings will reveal these differences to a degree where the differences are audible and obvious), and

3. Some listeners simply hear and care about these differences better and more than others.

If an audiophile is someone who strives to create the impact of a live performance in their listening room, the equipment (including interconnects) in the upgrade path are going to change the sound. I have ABC auditioned three different cables on a home system that consisted of a McCormack TLC-1 preamp, McCormack DNA-1 power amp, and Klipsch Forte speakers, and I could hear the differences between all three interconnects. I found I was willing to pay that difference to obtain the sound I preferred. (I went with Nordost, BTW).

To flatly state that, in your own limited experience, there is no difference other than volume between different interconnects is like saying that Bobby Fischer only played games, or like telling a wine connoisseur that all wine tastes like sour grapes.

#8 of 27 OFFLINE   Michael Mohrmann

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Posted March 22 2003 - 01:29 AM

Paul,

I suggest you relist your post in the HTF tweaks forums below which allows you to ask a specific cable brand question without being lectured to.

http://www.hometheat....php?forumid=76

You might want to try the following links:

http://www.avsforum.....php?forumid=28

http://www.htguide.c....&CFB=1&forum=3

Michael

#9 of 27 OFFLINE   Brian Fitterman

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Posted March 22 2003 - 01:48 AM

Quote:
I could hear the differences between all three interconnects. I found I was willing to pay that difference to obtain the sound I preferred. (I went with Nordost, BTW).


Lee, I would have to agree. I used to own Monster 550M interconnect. I thought they were good enough and that the audiophile stuff was just a joke. Then my dealer loaned me a pair of XLO Ultra and AudioQuest Viper. They ARE different sounding. The XLO has great bass, very tight and smooth, but with the 100's they were too bright in the highs. Then I went back to the Monsters and boy did I notice how muddy the sound got. Then I went to the Vipers. The best highs out of all of them and the bass was not quite as good as the XLOs. Since I could never live with those highs from the XLOs, I went with the Vipers. I could never be happier.

Lee, my dealer just picked up the Nordost line. Great choice. I am going to upgrade from my DIY cat5 speaker wire Blue Heaven wire. They really open up the imaging on speakers.
My Home Theater - Anthem AVM-30, Krell KAV-2250, Von Schweikert VR4 GenIII SE, Mits HDTV, Pioneer 59avi...

#10 of 27 OFFLINE   Lee-M

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Posted March 22 2003 - 01:56 AM

Brian,

Are you using the balanced connectors from your Anthem to your amplifier? If so, what cables are you using? I am using Nordost Solar Wind RCA's from my Anthem to my Rotel power amp, but am trying to decide on XLR interconnects...

#11 of 27 OFFLINE   Brett DiMichele

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Posted March 22 2003 - 03:32 AM

Okay let me get this straight.. The Believers in Cable Magic
are allowed to believe and express their opinion but the Non
Believers are not?

Hmm...

Take 2 high quality cables, input a signal.. If they don't
come out the other end exactly the same, then there is a
problem with the cable IMHO. The cable's job is nothing
more than to pass a signal from one electrical component
to another. Does a good cable make a difference over a junk
one? Yep... Does a "Esoteric" cable make an audible difference
than a good cable? If you perceive it to be so, then it is
so.. (To you)

There is room in the world for both camps and we can all
poke good hearted fun at each other. If our skin is all so
thin then we are in the wrong hobby! Posted Image
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#12 of 27 OFFLINE   Paul Gere

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Posted March 22 2003 - 03:41 AM

Thanks to all for the sentiments.
I knew I was stepping into a very subjective issue with this post and got about what I expected in response. Thought I'd try the post here first so that I could communicate with folks who had the same equipment that I did. I'll try elsewhere and play with speaker positioning and room tuning.
Thanks again.

#13 of 27 OFFLINE   Chu Gai

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Posted March 22 2003 - 07:10 AM

Well even wine experts get fooled Lee...read about it at this link: http://www.ananova.c.../sm_564693.html
All I can inform you is that once one assures that the levels to the speakers are matched and that you no longer know which cable you are listening to, the results of the studies have indicated that one's ability to differentiate one over another is reduced to the flipping of a coin. However, it's your gun, your bullet, your foot. AudioAsylum's the place to go if you want to discuss cables without fear of someone like myself making mention of what's been scientifically studied.

#14 of 27 OFFLINE   Lee-M

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Posted March 23 2003 - 12:19 AM

Chu,

Oooooh, the web's premiere (yeah, right) news site posts an uncredited story (no correspondent's names, no names of participants) about a whopping 56 wine tasters fooled into thinking red wine was white, and this proves your point?

How about checking out theonion.com for more serious news stories... it's where I get all of my information.

Any time someone belittles a subject about which they have an incomplete understanding, the proponents of the maligned idea can choose to try to make their point reasonably (which I think I have done), become vehemently defensive (which I try not to do), or shake their heads in resigned silence. I believe the time for silence has come. I learned years ago that closed minds are not for me to open, without said minds having the benefit of my own (or similar) experience.

Paul, before I abandon this thread... If you would like to spend the money, I recommend you read a lot of reviews, and try some better interconnects. Your components and your ears deserve it.

#15 of 27 OFFLINE   Chu Gai

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Posted March 23 2003 - 03:49 AM

and here I thought you got it from mothraresearch...2+2 still equals 4 and sorry if repeating that makes me closed, but someday if you run across some credible listening tests i'd love to hear about them.

#16 of 27 OFFLINE   Shane Martin

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Posted March 23 2003 - 07:38 AM

It's pretty sad when someone wants a simple answer from people who use the product and all he gets is information he didn't ask for. None of the threadfarters here suggested an interconnect which he asked for.

I don't expect the moderators to do a darn thing about this threadfart. It's just awful. Posted Image Posted Image

Kimber PBJ's are good(to me) and I like them along with my current ones which are Tara Labs. Both I would suggest you try as you should be able to get those locally.

#17 of 27 OFFLINE   Paul Gere

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Posted March 23 2003 - 07:46 AM

Shane,
Thanks for listening and for your suggestion.

"Threadfart". pretty appropriate! Posted Image

#18 of 27 OFFLINE   Brett DiMichele

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Posted March 23 2003 - 08:46 AM

I say buy the most expensive cables you can afford! The
more they cost the better they will be. You will be happy,
your ears will be happy and your equipment will be happy.

And I will run my garbage interconnects on my junk gear
because I am "close minded" and I just don't "understand".

Posted Image

Good luck!
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#19 of 27 OFFLINE   Michael Mohrmann

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Posted March 23 2003 - 09:02 AM

Quote:
I say buy the most expensive cables you can afford! The more they cost the better they will be. You will be happy, your ears will be happy and your equipment will be happy.
Nope, you buy the cables you think made the system sound the way you want it to, regardless of cost. If you can't hear a difference, then I would suggest getting the cheapest cable you can find that has quality connectors.

Paul is allowed to believe that a cable switch will improve his system, and other are allowed to believe that no such difference will occur. So, why argue the point? If Paul wants to "waste" his money (and by the cost of his current cables he is willing to spend a lot), then let him and let others make those suggestions.

Good luck Paul, you are going to need it.

Michael

#20 of 27 OFFLINE   Paul Gere

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Posted March 23 2003 - 09:35 AM

Geez, what a disappointing dogpile this thread has become. Guess I shouldn't have had such hopeful expectations.

Please move along, nothing to see here.





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