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Dual Maelstroms or Tempests? (Maelstrom on sale)


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#1 of 18 OFFLINE   Mike Keith

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Posted March 20 2003 - 10:12 AM

The gap has narrowed recently with the Maelstrom going on sale for $225 ea, so my question to you guys is this.

Would it be worth the extra $150 for 2- Maelstroms verses 2- Tempest, I’ve never really considered a Maelstrom over a Tempest at the regular price, but now that I'm ready to buy 2 good drivers and the Maelstrom is conveniently on sale I’m having a hard time making up my mind.

Here are the details

I have the following available power
1 ea Adcom GFA-555 (200 X 2, or 400 X 1)
1 ea Audio Source Amp 3 (150 X 2 or 400 X 1)

I also have a 9 foot section of 24” Sonotube that a friend gave me for helping him on his sub project.

60% HT
40% Music

BTW Quality is of more importance than Quantity, clean seamless bass is first and foremost, however I don’t want to have to worry about the subs keeping up with the rest of the system, which is my current problem and I occasionally listen to music very loud.


I wish to build 2 separate single driver sono-subs in either a EBS or Sealed alignment.

There is a lot of info on this site on the Tempest but far less of the Maelstrom, probably because of the price, but if price between these two didn’t matter then what would you do considering this equipment and taste?

Thanks for any opinions or personal experiences.

#2 of 18 OFFLINE   TimForman

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Posted March 20 2003 - 11:03 AM

I ran the numbers on the Maelstrom and, unless I'm doing something wrong, they don't look all that great compared to the Tempest. The Maelstrom has tremendous power handling but you don't have huge amps anyway. It may be better to keep your $150 bucks and go with the Tempests. Even though I'm a fan of Adire the AV15 for $165 is worth considering too.

#3 of 18 OFFLINE   Scott Simonian

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Posted March 20 2003 - 11:14 AM

I dont think big amps are nessesary for the Maelstrom. It has a very high sensitivity. About 96db I think.

Posted Image Posted Image
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#4 of 18 OFFLINE   TimForman

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Posted March 20 2003 - 11:36 AM

Yes, the Maelstrom does not require large amps, it just has high power handling capability. I still don't see the advantage of the Maelstrom over the Tempest or AV15 (unless I'm missing something). I guess bigger isn't necessarily better.

#5 of 18 OFFLINE   Pete Mazz

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Posted March 20 2003 - 11:53 AM

I'd go with the Tempests. They're efficient enough in large enclosures to work well with the available power. I'd put both drivers in a single enclosure, personally.

Pete

#6 of 18 OFFLINE   TimForman

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Posted March 20 2003 - 11:57 AM

I've heard that it's difficult to have twin subs in the same room. Something about comb-filtering and signal cancellation. I run two subs but they are distinctly different and separated by the furniture. Would someone please explain the comb-filtering problem?

#7 of 18 OFFLINE   David Gadd

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Posted March 20 2003 - 12:05 PM

Maelstrom advantages:
3L displacement (vs 2.5 for Tempest)
1000 Watts powerhandling (vs. 750)
92.9 dB efficiency (vs. 89.1)

Maelstrom disadvantages:
20Hz fs (vs. 18.8)
460 L vas (vs. 317)

So, in appropriately sized boxes, the Maelstrom will go louder and do so with less power than the Tempest (think 110 dB with about 65 watts for the Maelstrom). The Maelstrom requires an even larger enclosure and will roll off slightly sooner than the Tempest, however.

In a 17in, sealed, LT'ed enclosure the Maelstrom models quite nicely thanks to the high efficiency Plus high power handling.

#8 of 18 OFFLINE   Rob Formica

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Posted March 20 2003 - 04:21 PM

I am also shopping around for a woofer.... and from the specs as well as the info I’ve seen on the internet... it's pretty much like david said:

- Maelstrom will go louder overall and with less power
- Tempest will go lower (Hz) but using more power

Then you've got the Stryke AV15:

- will be louder than the Tempest but not as loud as Maelstrom (?)
- requires more power than either the Adire subs and
- plays as low (Hz) as the Tempest
- has the smallest box size of the three

The only Maelstrom sub I’ve seen documented on the web seems to be Kyle Richardson's... which you can see:

http://www.acoustic-...tromsubpics.htm

One of the reasons I’m finding it hard to decide, in Canada the Tempest sub is much more economical than the AV15 (50%more).

I guess it’s all part of the design balance... Posted Image
*Shedding light by means of the combustion of snake oil* PC-ABX

#9 of 18 OFFLINE   Mike Keith

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Posted March 21 2003 - 01:19 AM

Yea that’s kinda what I thought, it seems though the majority would go for the Tempest, although I would love to hear Kyle’s impressions on this, but evidently he is away for a while at the NCAA Basketball tournament according to the e-mail reply he sent me, so maybe I wait just a little longer to make my final decision.

Thanks a lot guys for the very good information, I like to investigate every possibility before I commit to a sub I will be living with for some years in the future.

BTW I have considered the AV15 but it just seems too power hungry for my available amps and I don’t like small enclosures. Also my room seems to do very well with 2 separate subs as opposed to 1, I've tried both in many locations and 1 in each corner behind the mains is far superior and better balanced then just 1.

#10 of 18 OFFLINE   Rob Formica

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Posted March 21 2003 - 03:34 AM

There were some comments posted not so long ago, you may want to take a look near the end of this recent thread:

http://www.hometheat....hreadid=129407
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#11 of 18 OFFLINE   Mike Keith

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Posted March 21 2003 - 01:46 PM

O.K. I've decided on the Maelstrom (efficiency reasons & I don't want to have what everyone else has) so now the next question is what kind of Bass E.Q. should I get?

I'm considering the Following:

Behringer Pro or some other Berhringer Product
Marchand Bassis ($300, OUCH)

Any comments or Preferences?


BTW I never knew there were so many Behringer Products, now I'm totally confused which version would be best suite this system.

Behringer
http://www.audioproh....processors.htm

Marchand
http://marchandelec.com/wm8.htm

#12 of 18 OFFLINE   Kyle Richardson

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Posted March 21 2003 - 02:34 PM

Mike,
The DSP1124 is the most popular for HT geeks because it offers a widely versatile parametric EQ for aobut $125. I know some of their other products work very well too but at a higher cost.
I think you'll be happy with the Maelstroms. They dont get the publicity as some of the other drivers because they tends to roll off just a bit sooner, but as I said in my e-mail, mine is flat to 20-21Hz in room. Plus I'm a bit like you....I dont like to have what everybody else has Posted Image
Kyle Richardson
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#13 of 18 OFFLINE   Mark Hayenga

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Posted March 21 2003 - 03:45 PM

Not to shill, but I've got a pair of DIY Tempests that I want to sell before I move. If you're going DIY for performance I could save you the labor. If you're in it for the hobby, then get that Maelstrom and make some sawdust Posted Image

BTW I'd go for the DSP1124P.
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#14 of 18 OFFLINE   Scott Simonian

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Posted March 21 2003 - 04:19 PM

The BFD may be somewhat intimidating to use but for the money and flexibility, why not?
Another supporter of 1080p and uncompressed multi-channel sound!

My Twin 18's. 50cuft of box, tuned to 11hz and with 2k watts on tap.

#15 of 18 OFFLINE   Rob Formica

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Posted March 21 2003 - 04:51 PM

Posted Image it's another addition I had been considering, and I'd also personally go with the Behringer Feedback Destroyer 1124P... as it offers fully adjustable parametric eq where you can actually place all of the available bands in the subwoofer frequencies. There are a couple of very good web pages written by fellow HTF members at:

http://www27.brinkster.com/jmag999/
http://www.snapbug.ws/bfd.htm

Let us know how your project turns out...

Rob.
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#16 of 18 OFFLINE   Mike Keith

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Posted March 22 2003 - 08:13 AM

Thanks Kyle for taking the time to quickly respond to my e-mail and post your opinions hear at this forum.

Thanks for the offer Mark, but I’m already going down the road least traveled and plan some kind of new twist on the old Sonotube, hopefully they will match my very unusual mains.

Now for one more question, will the BFD 1124 help extend the lower octaves on the sub the way the Marchand Bassis can?

Bassis
http://marchandelec.com/wm8.htm

My Mains
http://www.geocities....ype.html?10166

#17 of 18 OFFLINE   Gary Griffiths

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Posted March 23 2003 - 07:31 AM

Quote:
Now for one more question, will the BFD 1124 help extend the lower octaves on the sub the way the Marchand Bassis can?


No. The BFD isn't able to provide boost below 20hz. Use the Bassis to boost the low frequency roll-off below your corner frequency and the BFD to tame room resonance.

I have a pair of Tempests in a 16^3ft box driven by an audiophile monobloc amp (not impressed with plate amps, I've tried a good few right up to the Hypex HS200). I use a Paradigm x30 low-pass filter with a Bassis and a BFD and am very pleased with the result.
Regards
Gary

#18 of 18 OFFLINE   Mike Keith

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Posted March 23 2003 - 12:59 PM

Thanks Gary, I guess I'll just get which ever I need the most depending on what they sound like. Probably the BFD first then add what ever else (including room treatment) I need after.