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The Eternal Angelriffic Thread (Merged)


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#41 of 3776 Jason Seaver

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Posted May 24 2002 - 08:12 AM

Hmmm...

http://tv.zap2it.com...aily.html?26117

A potential bummer for "Angel" if it pans out this way; Greenwalt has done some pretty great work. That said, Simkins has a pretty decent resume, as most "Brisco Country Junior" alumni do. Odd that they apparently aren't just giving the job to Tim Minear, but, then again, promoting from within isn't always the best strategy (see: "Voyager"), and Minear may not be suited to being the Guy In Charge, either.

Upon re-checking the IMDB, Minear's apparently moving over to "Firefly". Maybe he'll be Joss's #2 there.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what this means for the show.

(And now, the pool for the first appearances of Bruce Campbell and/or Billy Drago as guest stars is officially open)
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#42 of 3776 Jason Seaver

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Posted May 24 2002 - 08:34 AM

We all miss "Brisco Country Junior". If you'd told me a decade ago that "The X-Files" would be the show on Fox's Friday schedule which survives nine years, spawning feature films and a merchandising empire and making its leads stars with national name recognition...

::sniff:: I've got to break out some tapes...
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#43 of 3776 Jason Seaver

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Posted May 27 2002 - 02:22 PM

Umm... Billy's pretty thoroughly dead, Jeff.

I am kind of irked that they seem to have just forgotten about Sah-ja after he got free. I mean, wasn't he supposed to be a really nasty piece of work that was made ethereal for a reason? But nobody seems to be worried about him running around L.A., even if he's not actually marauding yet.
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#44 of 3776 Jason Seaver

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Posted May 28 2002 - 01:51 AM

No, you're right... I even complained about how Justine and Holtz probably wouldn't know to get the bottle since Angel needed a trip to the exposition room to find out. My assumption that the bottle wouldn't hold him (they never do) must have just run away with me.
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#45 of 3776 Jason Seaver

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Posted May 28 2002 - 08:20 AM

Well, he's fairly dead on "Charmed", although they've talked about having him back to direct a few episodes.

I'd bet on seeing Billy Drago first, though. He's seemed to show up every time a "Brisco" alum moves to another show, even more than Bruce Campbell or Kelly Rutherford.

(To go horribly off-topic, I wonder how Bruce never appeared on "Spy Game". "Brisco" vet + Raimis + opportunities to chew scenery. Maybe if it had lasted more than six episodes..)

Anyway, I'm kind of curious as to how the new show-runner will effect "Angel". Zap2It had an article written before Greenwalt was offered "Miracles" that implied a "bring the pain" agenda for fall; Simkins mostly seems to be a more light-handed guy, but then again, I think "Freakylinks" is the only time he's been in charge, and I never saw that.
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#46 of 3776 Jason Seaver

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Posted June 06 2002 - 12:15 PM

Writing her back in is easy; she's been adventuring in another dimension for five years (so that we can stop pretending Cordy is younger than Fred), but wound up coming home accidentally. In fact, she could have thought she was being sucked into a hell-dimension, which, relatively speaking, could be true if she's on a "higher plane" right now.

(And, yeah, this could work with my "fifty years later" idea. What of it?)
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#47 of 3776 Jason Seaver

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Posted July 03 2002 - 03:19 PM

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I was worried that the move to sunday might have been an attempt to weaken the serries before canceling it. I figure that since UPN has a "must pick up Angel if cancelled" deal that it might seem attractive to the WB to hose the show and then stick UPN with it.

That would be foolish, though - I can hardly see WB spending, what, $1M/week just to possibly spite UPN later in the year. Besides, it's worth remembering that even if the competition is stiffer on Sunday night, the audience is larger (that's why the competition is stiffer).

Besides, WB's giving it a good, compatible lead-in with "Charmed", which has quietly been one of the network's best performers for the past four years. As much fun as paranoid conspiracy theories are, this is the best thing WB could do with "Angel". Figure they're not going to mess with Tuesday or Friday night, and that the Monday 9pm slot goes to "Everwood", then the options become Sunday, Thursday, and Wednesday at 9pm. "Birds Of Prey" gets the Wednesday slot because WB owns the show and it can be easily promoed during "Smallville", so the options for both "Charmed" and "Angel" become Sunday and Thursday - and you just know the same people would be howling as much, if not more, if "Angel" got put on against "Friends" or "CSI", too.

Quote:
It should be interesting to see how they resolve the whole situation with Cordy and Angel. I have some wild speculation.

A title card at the beginning of the season opener that says "47 years later". I'm practically demanding this. Posted Image
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#48 of 3776 Jason Seaver

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Posted October 08 2002 - 04:46 AM

See, this is why I hate cliffhangers. There were some good moments, but the entire thing seemed to be more or less about undoing the previous finale.

One thing I'm curious about - was David Simkins's name on this anywhere? I didn't spot it when I watched it, but I thought that he did hang around long enough to work on a few episodes. It might explain why this episode felt a little off - it was a sort of weird mishmash between Greenwalt's original plans, what Simkins came up with, and what whoever's in charge now (Whedon & Minear when they're not working on "Firefly"?) plan, until the program gets a real showrunner.

Understand, I liked it well-enough, despite its handicap of being a cliffhanger resolution. I'm really wanting to know just what's going on inside Wesley's head at the moment. Hopefully, now that things are back closer to normal (Angel's around, and Gunn & Fred can go back to being the fun supporting characters they excel at being), we're in for a good season.
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#49 of 3776 Jason Seaver

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Posted October 28 2002 - 12:23 AM

Is it just me, or did nothing happen this week? This episode existed entirely to push the macrostory forward, and was none too subtle or clever about it. And it's looking like a pretty weak storyline at that.

And oh look, another premonition of a terrible evil coming to town. For once, the folks at "Angel" might want to take a look at what "Buffy" was doing to introduce its alpha villain this year: Rather than vaguely worded threats (which, by now, we just sort of shrug off), they actually showed bad people successfully doing bad things with little explanation. Much more effective, in my opinion (of course, then they went and overdid it with the vague threats anyway, but that's a subject for another thread).
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#50 of 3776 Jason Seaver

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Posted October 28 2002 - 04:48 AM

I hate to say it, but I didn't really miss Cordy that much while she was gone. They've made her too nice; I miss her frequent bull-in-a-china-shop honesty and occasional misplaced priorities. The kinder, gentler Cordelia just isn't as much fun; my favorite part of this episode was her looking through her pictures and commenting "cute... cute... cute... hot... dear god, what was I thinking?"

I think part of the problem is that adding Lorne gave the writers two characters with precognative abilities, and they're not sure what purpose Cordelia serves anymore. Trying to pair her off with Angel didn't really work because, in some ways, she's a stronger person than Buffy and won't make herself miserable over a man. And then the "higher being" thing just fizzled.

(Again, I wonder if Greenwalt had a plan for this which neither Simkins nor Whedon picked up on, or whether he just liked the symbolism of Cordelia ascending while Angel fell.)

Hmm... I'm wondering if this might be another James Marsters situation - they love the actor too much to just write the character out when it's spent.

Quote:
Is anyone else grossed out by the conner/cordelia thing....
Actually, not really, especially since it seems to be pretty one-sided at this point: He's a teenager and she's an attractive older (but not older) woman who's got something in common with him - it's basically a crush on his teacher. Now, if we see Cordelia start to look at him sexually, that's different.
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#51 of 3776 Jason Seaver

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Posted October 28 2002 - 05:56 AM

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Trying to pair her off with Angel didn't really work because, in some ways, she's a stronger person than Buffy and won't make herself miserable over a man.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't agree. I think that their need for each other and the way that they bring the best in the other person definitely works. The problem is that any attachment carries the same danger: an evil Angel.
Then, actually, you do agree with me. Posted Image I think they have good chemistry together, and would work as a couple if it weren't for the whole "if Angel gets too happy, he becomes a sadistic serial killer and we both know it" thing. What I meant wasn't that Cordelia wouldn't fall in love with Angel, but that she's smart enough to realize "this isn't good for me" and walk away, while Buffy was perfectly willing to be miserable and self-pitying over the "tragic love" thing in Season 3 (before Joyce basically grabbed him and pointed out that he was hurting her).

Of course, Cordelia has the advantage of knowing that Angel may wind up human someday, which has got to be better for the old mental health.

Quote:
Another problem is that, by my count, Angel is on his third prophesied destiny.
Was the Whistler guy in Buffy S2 telling him his destiny or just asking him to do something? That would make four.

Quote:
it fells like Whedon & company are making things up as they go along or at least a season at a time.
Nothing wrong with making things up as you go along. Indeed, I think that in television, the ability to make things up as you go is a whole lot more valuable than being able to construct a detailed n-year plan. The problem here is that the writers just appeared to have nothing this week. So they repeat themselves (prophecy!) and pad the season with an episode that is all about the larger story but doesn't really have any dramatic thrust to it.
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#52 of 3776 Jason Seaver

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Posted October 28 2002 - 06:28 AM

Quote:
All signs point towards Angelus' return later this season,
I'd be surprised and disappointed unless it was an extraordinarily clever "evil twins" storyline - which, given a guy like Angel's dual nature, wouldn't necessarily suck. I remember hearing this when Simkins was in charge, but not so much since. Wasn't Gwen going to be a relatively major subplot then, instead of being a one-episode guest star?

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But Buffy was a 15 or 16 year old girl in "luv" and Cordelia is a 22 year old woman who has seen "Angelus" at his worst.
Not during season three, she wasn't. And even then, Cordy's wasn't really into the "poor me" thing - Xander did something that hurt her, she correctly diagnosed that the situation was Xander's fault. She also always looked forward as opposed to back - Anya had a terrible time getting Cordelia to start a sentence with the words "I wish".
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#53 of 3776 Jason Seaver

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Posted October 28 2002 - 07:18 AM

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I think there has to be a return to Angelus... Honestly, I think they shouldn't necessarily harp on it, but Angel IS a vampire, soul or not.
Right. But "Angelus" has been done - he's evil. We get that. What ground can you cover with Angelus that hasn't been thoroughly mined during season 2 of "Buffy"?

The problem with Angelus is that he's effectively a seperate character from Angel. He's not Angel letting his vampiric urges overwhelm his conscience, or pushed to the point of doing something awful for what he feels are good reasons.

Again, the only really interesting thing they could do with a "return of Angelus" thing would be to somehow split "Angelus" from "Liam" (the self-absorbed waestrel he was before meeting Darla). Sure, it's a cliche, and maybe not much fodder for an arc ("Star Trek" covered this ground in one episode 35 years ago Posted Image), but it at least makes the story about Angel, as opposed to this other character who just happens to occasionally take over his body.
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#54 of 3776 Jason Seaver

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Posted October 30 2002 - 05:33 AM

I mentioned this before; someone mentioned he was trapped inside a container of some sort.

Still, this is an abnormally long time for a supernatural prison to hold someone. Posted Image

I'd kind of like to see what Kate Lochley's up to, myself. Sure, tough to work around Ms. Rohm's shooting schedule, but wouldn't it be a kick in the pants if she showed up in Wesley's crew (or even consulting for W&H, especially if she didn't realize who she was working for)?
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#55 of 3776 Jason Seaver

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Posted November 03 2002 - 11:58 PM

Well, that was unexpected and excellent.
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#56 of 3776 Jason Seaver

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Posted November 04 2002 - 03:00 AM

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Easy, he put the book where he knew she'd poke around and find it
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come on, though -- how terribly inefficient is that?
That's if you assume Fred opened the portal. That she found the book at about the same time the portal opened could have been nothing more than a coincidence.

Of course, that's splitting hairs - time spent worrying about that is just a distraction from the great story. What I absolutely loved about "Supersymmetry" was how, unlike with her counterpart on "Buffy" last year, Fred's pursuit of the professor gained a certain inevitability over the course of the episode. The guy was a serial killer, but Fred & company would never be able to prove it, and even if they found evidence, good luck getting him to trial. And it's doubtful just taking his book away would be enough - he'd know where to find the information again.

I loved how they told Angel he fell down his own portal, because that would have been the predictable ending. This time, though, their life wasn't as convenient as that.

Quote:
The whole Connor-Cordy thing was icky.
But not in a creepy way, though. I mean, look at it from Connor's POV - he's probably never even seen a human woman until about six months ago, he's probably as horny as most 15-year-old boys, Cordelia's a knockout, and he figures they've already shared one form of intimacy, if you count that magic "spiritual cleansing" thing from last season. He's probably got no idea that he was out of line. It's kind of sad, really.

And even as addled as her brain is, Cordelia put a stop to it right away, as kindly as she could. So even if it was "icky", it wasn't exactly bad in a perverted way (like, you know, mooning over an animated corpse while you're still in high school and you know physical intimacy will turn him into an unrepentant flesh-eating serial killer).
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#57 of 3776 Jason Seaver

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Posted November 04 2002 - 04:53 AM

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There is still an icky factor to it because Cordy was taking on a motherly role to Conor when he was an infant and even to an extent when he came back grown up.
Which Cordelia can't remember and which Connor can't recognize - he's got to be more confused at human interaction than Anya.
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#58 of 3776 Jason Seaver

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Posted November 04 2002 - 11:19 PM

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Cordy seems to have become excess baggage. And she's now an example of the Spike/James Masters principle. The writers don't know where to go next but Joss likes the actor to much.
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Seems like Seaver's Cordelia theory is spreading, cause I feel the same way.
Geez, I'm starting to feel sorry for Cordelia. I mean, right now she's just extraneous; it's not like her very presence undermines her show's credibility the way Spike's did on "Buffy".
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#59 of 3776 Jason Seaver

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Posted November 07 2002 - 11:56 PM

Re-read the article. Fantastic Four is not being handled by MTV; that's who did the interview with Petrie. And Petrie just used Denisof to describe how he envisioned the casting of the scene, he hasn't been signed (and probably hasn't been approached) for anything.

And wasn't Petrie supposedly attached to and talking up "Doctor Who" a year ago? Anything can happen before it actually gets made.
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#60 of 3776 Jason Seaver

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Posted November 10 2002 - 11:48 PM

Well, that was pointless.

Well, maybe not completely. Amy Acker is rapidly becoming this show's MVP, but aside from that, we had a bunch of people acting out of character, a thoroughly disappointing end to the "Cordelia's amnesia" storyline, and a contrived plot that's padded by Lorne's narration and ends with a whimper.
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Transplanted Life: Sci-fi soap opera about a man placed in a new body, updated two or three times a week.
Trading Post Inn - Another gender-bending soap, with different collaborators writing different points of view.

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