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Bi-amp Upgrade Dilemma


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9 replies to this topic

#1 of 10 OFFLINE   StevieP

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Posted March 18 2003 - 09:11 AM

Greetings everyone !

I have been reading and learning from this forum for a good while now and seem to always find the answer to my questions by just doing a search (when it worksPosted Image however, I have come up with a question that may be a little out of the ordinary--maybe not, but here goes anyway!

After reading about Bi-Amping, I recently hooked up an old Sony pro-logic receiver I had laying around, with my DA3ES as a Bi amp for my Def Tech BP30s (100 watt pro-logic connected to high freq posts on the BP30s) and man what a difference! Everything is much cleaner,and more defined, even the bass is punchier.
My system so far (A work in progress, as can be afforded)
Sony DA3ES
Sony DVP850d 200 disc DVD/CD
Sony KV36FS17 36" Wega
Sony SLV750HF VHS (old)
Def Tech BP30 Mains
Cerwin Vega LS6C Center (Next for upgrade)
Def Tech BP1X Surrounds
Dahlquist PF15 main sub (on the list for upgrade--SVS!)
Def Tech Powerfield 10 sub (in-line with BP1X surrounds)

This got me thinking-- utt-ohh!

Now to my dilemma,and any way I look at it it ends up costing me more money! (I love, hate this hobbyPosted Image )

I was planing my next upgrade to be a Def Tech CLR 1000 since it's drivers and crossover match my BP30s, but since the CLR 1000 does not have connections for bi-wire/bi-amp, that means I have to step up to the CLR 2000 to still match drivers,etc, and since I'm gonna do that why not, just go ahead and plan on BPVXs for surrounds (again matching drivers,and I believe bi-amp connections)and keep the BP1Xs for rear surrounds for 7.1

Well now, what about amps?
I have also been reading about the advantages of separates.
I love my DA3ES but it does not have DTS-ES,Pro-LogicII,or NEO-6 along with not having 3 band equalizer for the surrounds, however it does have 5.1/7.1 channel inputs.
You see where this is going?
Sony DA4ES unit prices seem to be coming down and if i'm not mistaken the DA4/DA3 might make a pretty good pre-pro/bi-amp solution for me.
Or would I be better off with separates? (Amps in my DA3ES seem to work out pretty well) and if so, opinions on what 2-3-5channel amps could be had for the same money as a single DA4ES? (I've seen them on e-bay for $629)

Seems to me that, to do what I want, and that is--bi-amp, mains, center, and surrounds. I would also get the benefit of more processing/decoding in my pre/pro to boot!

Thanks, for reading such a long post.
Steve.

#2 of 10 OFFLINE   StevieP

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Posted March 29 2003 - 01:37 AM

Bump, Opinions ? Posted Image Posted Image

#3 of 10 OFFLINE   John H

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Posted March 29 2003 - 04:57 AM

Quote:
...BPVXs for surrounds (again matching drivers,and I believe bi-amp connections)...

The BPVX only has one set of binding posts.

John

#4 of 10 OFFLINE   Paul Clarke

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Posted March 29 2003 - 05:05 AM

There has been a long running discussion of the pro and cons of the 4ES over on AVSforum.com. The issue centers around the new international standard for measuring amp power that Sony has adopted. I would read the posts over there, as well as similar ones here, before considering the 4ES as the main source of power in your situation. Of course, if you are thinking of moving to it for the improved pre/pro capabilities using external amping for at least some channels I think it is hard to beat for features and flexibility. I suspect if you had originally bought the 5ES you would be in less of dilemna now and could probably concentrate more clearly on the amping question.

It's not clear to me from your post...are you intending to keep the 3ES for amping?
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#5 of 10 OFFLINE   Michael R Price

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Posted March 29 2003 - 06:11 AM

Steve,

IMO it's quite a lot of trouble to bi-amp all your speakers, and it's pretty discouraging that you'd have to spend more money to get speakers with two binding posts. I would stick with bi-amping the mains only. But, that's just my opinion. You could try a good monoblock on the center speaker if you wanted to improve its sound, and you could also buy new amplifiers for your mains that may well sound better in standard configuration than the bi-amping with receivers you have now. There's a lot of options.

BTW, did you try any different amplifiers, or try switching the 3ES and the old amp?

#6 of 10 OFFLINE   StevieP

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Posted March 29 2003 - 10:30 AM

Hey guys, thanks for the replies.

It's not clear to me from your post...are you intending to keep the 3ES for amping?
----------------------------------------------------------

Yes, I thought I would keep it as the high amp, assuming that I get a 4ES to pre/pro and drive the lower end.

BTW, did you try any different amplifiers, or try switching the 3ES and the old amp?
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The only other unused amp I had is the old Sony pro logic so are you suggesting I use it to power the low end ? I don't think it's amps are as good as the 3ES.
I do have a Sony DE675 in use for my bedroom, however I don't think it's amps are as good as the old pro logic.
I would try it for the upper end, before buying a new 4ES if the 675 had 5.1 inputs. but alas it does not!

Thanks again for the replies and keep em coming.

#7 of 10 OFFLINE   Michael R Price

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Posted March 29 2003 - 12:56 PM

Steve,

See if you could borrow a good separate amplifier for awhile. Try it running full range, then driving the woofers only, then tweeters only (using one of your current receivers as the other one). I did something similar to this and found that the good amp run full range sounded best - the other one introduced harshness and muddied the sound a bit whether it drove the highs or the lows. I'd be interested to hear your comments on such a comparison.

Of course, you could buy two new amplifiers and bi-amp with them. That could get expensive. I am trying to do so with some DIY stuff at the moment and it works (I'm 90% sure it sounds better than anything I've tried before) except I have a lot of hum to get rid of.

#8 of 10 OFFLINE   BrentPollard

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Posted March 30 2003 - 02:18 AM

I agree with Michael R Price. IMO I think you may be getting a little over enthusiastic over the whole bi-amping thing. Sit back and take a breath. Remember the surrounds are not your mains. Any benefit you get bi-amping the mains may not translate to the surrounds, so you may be going to a lot of expense for little gain. I would suggest sticking with the 3es for now and getting a nice 5 channel pwr amp. In that way you are at least setting yourself up to move into a pre/pro amp configuration later which will probably give you some real sonic benefit. Posted Image

#9 of 10 OFFLINE   StevieP

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Posted March 30 2003 - 03:26 AM

Thanks for the input guys!
Any suggestions on a nice 5 channel amp ? ( under $500 probably used )
Since I am planning to at least upgrade my center to a Def Tech CLR 1000 or 2000, ( Cerwin Vega has to go! )
What are your thoughts about bi-amping the center and mains?
I know the CLR 1000 dosent have dual binding post, so I will need to look for a used CLR 2000 if I am going to bi-amp the center.

Ps: I wrote last night about how i like the control you get from bi-amping but I guess I forgot to post. ( tired ? )

Steve.

#10 of 10 OFFLINE   BrentPollard

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Posted March 31 2003 - 03:07 AM

You could probably find a Rotel RB985 MK I for (5x100) for under 500. Outlaw makes a 5ch that should be reasonably priced as well. Posted Image