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#1 of 17 DanFP

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Posted March 13 2003 - 08:56 AM

I am looking into upgrading from 5.1 HT/Music to 7.1 using separates. I plan to add:
-Anthem AVM-20 V2.09 pre/pro (used)
-Sherbourn 7/2100 (7x200 Watts) Amplifier (new)

My current HT/Music system is described at the end of this post.

I have a couple of nagging questions.
1) I think I need a dedicated 20 Amp circuit for the Sherbourn Amp, right?
2) My listening position is against the back wall. Though not ideal, is it okay to place my side speakers a little ahead of my listening position and place my rear surrounds wall-mounted almost directly overhead?
3) Any suggestions about which brand of rear surrounds would match my Pinnacle speakers. I am currently looking at Boston Acoustics Micro100X:
http://www.bostonaco....ID=15&SpecID=1
Thanks
Dan

My current HT/Music system:
Harman Kardon AVR-85 A/V Receiver, 5 x 85 Watts

Pioneer DVD Player DV-525

TV Mitsubishi 65" rear projection HDTV

HDTV set top box for OTA (Over The Air) local channels

Speaker Mains: Pinnacle Classic Gold Aerogel Tower:
Component Drivers:
1" liquid cooled gold dome tweeter
5 1/4" High Definition Aerogel midrange
(2) 8" fibercone woofers with rubber surrounds
Frequency Response: 26-21 kHz (+/- 3 dB)
Crossover Frequency: 500 Hz, 5 kHz
Recommended Amplifier Power: 20-300 Watts RMS per channel
Operative Power Range: 5-175 Watts RMS Continuous, 500 Watts RMS Peak
Sensitivity: 95 dB (2.83 Volts Pink Noise @ 1 Meter)
Nominal Impedance: 8 Ohms
Dimensions: 9 5/8" Wide x 43 7/8" High x 15 1/4" Deep

Speaker Center: Pinnacle Classic Gold Center
Component Drivers:
1" liquid cooled gold dome tweeter
(4) 5 1/4" fibercone woofers with rubber surrounds
Frequency Response: 80-21 kHz (+/- 3 dB)
Crossover Frequency: 4 kHz
Recommended Amplifier Power: 20-200 Watts RMS per channel
Operative Power Range: 5-150 Watts RMS Continuous, 500 Watts RMS Peak
Sensitivity: 91 dB (2.83 Volts Pink Noise @ 1 Meter)
Nominal Impedance: 8 Ohms
Dimensions: 31" Wide x 7" High x 8 3/4" Deep

Speaker Rears: Pinnacle Classic Gold Reference
Component Drivers:
1" liquid cooled gold dome tweeter
(2) 6 1/2" fibercone woofers with rubber surrounds
Frequency Response: 29-21 kHz (+/- 3 dB)
Crossover Frequency: 2.5 kHz
Recommended Amplifier Power: 20-200 Watts RMS per channel
Operative Power Range: 5-100 Watts RMS Continuous, 250 Watts RMS Peak
Sensitivity: 92 dB (2.83 Volts Pink Noise @ 1 Meter)
Nominal Impedance: 8 Ohms
Dimensions: 8 3/8" Wide x 33" High x 13 1/4" Deep

Speaker Powered Sub: Pinnacle Digital Sub 350
Component Drivers:
(2) 12" heavyweight polycone woofers with rubber surrounds
2" voice coils, and 40 ounce magnets
Subwoofer Low End Frequency Response: 22 Hz (- 3 dB)
Amplifier Power: 350 Watts RMS continous, 550 Watts Peak
Dimensions: 14 1/4" Wide x 15" High x 15" Deep

#2 of 17 DanFP

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Posted March 13 2003 - 10:17 AM

Also does anyone have a suggestion for an Amp that would match my Pinnacle speakers better that the Sherbourn 7/2100 (7x200 Watts) Amplifier?

#3 of 17 Bill Lucas

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Posted March 13 2003 - 01:30 PM

Dan,

I haven't seen your room but from your description running 7.1 in the room will probably do nothing but muddy the rear soundfield. If you don't have the room to properly install your speakers and place your seating I'd suggest you stick with 5.1. In the end you'll have a more coherent, stable soundfield. Regards.

#4 of 17 DanFP

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Posted March 13 2003 - 02:34 PM

Thanks for your reply Bill.

I don't have very much room (pardon the pun). The distance from the TV to the viewing position is only 10 feet terminated by a wall.

So maybe I should be thinking about upgrading my 5.1 system instead of converting to 7.1.

I need better 2 channel music is my basic problem. When playing Stereo music the AVR-85 sends all the signal to my mains and nothing to the Sub so I don't hear enough bass. For HT movies the Sub kicks in with plenty of bass but not for music.

#5 of 17 DanFP

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Posted March 13 2003 - 04:30 PM

Let me describe my room a little better. The room is 16.5' wide but only 13.5' deep. It has a vaulted ceiling with the high ceiling at the TV screen and the low ceiling at the viewing position.

The short (13.5' deep) length leaves me with only 10' from TV to viewing position and therefore, no room for rear surrounds unless I wall-mount them almost directly overhead.

The speaker placement would be crowded with sides about 3' in front of the viewing position and wall-mounted rear-surrounds almost directly overhead (but slightly behind) the viewing position.

Question is; Will the crowded speaker placement defeat the benefits of upgrading from 5.1 to a 7.1 system?

#6 of 17 Bill_D

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Posted March 13 2003 - 08:31 PM

I have the 7/2100 and you do not need a 20 amp run unless you are pushing a 4 ohm load. It does however have 2 power cords and both need to be used. It works fine for me off of a 15amp service and I have both cords plugged into the same duplex receptacle.

Even if you go with a 5.1, the 7/2100 is easily bridged.

#7 of 17 Charles Gurganus

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Posted March 14 2003 - 12:10 AM

There is nothing wrong with getting the Sherbourn amp but I agree you don't need 7.1 for your room. It sounds like you are happy with HK for home theater, just not for music. You may not even need the amp IMO. Check to see if your sub has high pass speaker inputs. If it does, it will have 4 sets of speaker connections on the sub, 2 for inputs from the receiver and 2 for outputs back to the speaker. If it does and you want to try something different that should help with bass on 2 channel, let me know.
Charles

#8 of 17 Scott Oliver

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Posted March 14 2003 - 01:54 AM

Your front speakers are rated to 26Hz that should be plenty of bass for almost all forms of music. The only stuff that can get that low is synthetic bass beats and an organ, perhaps some big drums too.

I guess other options would be to use the high pass connections on the sub. Turn up the bass levels if your receiver has tone controls. Or set-up your main speakers as small for music so that the bass is crossed over from the mains into the subwoofer.

All of these options would be degradations in pure 2-channel sound, but they could certainly increase the bass level. Personally, I am thinking that your receiver isn't getting everything out of your Pinnacle speakers, so perhaps the added external amp would solve your bass problems. 26Hz response just shouldn't be leaving you wanting more bass.

Oh or you could just be experiencing a bass-suckout from your mains with where they are currntly positioned due to room interactions. Maybe try moving them a round a little if you can, and see if that changes anything.

#9 of 17 DanFP

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Posted March 14 2003 - 02:03 AM

Yes, my Sub has four plugs (2 each L/R) marked
>>From Receiver/Amp<<
and another set of four plugs (2 each L/R) marked
>>To Speakers<<

That should get me some music bass! I have some speaker wiring work to do.

Thanks
Dan

#10 of 17 Charles Gurganus

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Posted March 14 2003 - 03:02 AM

Dan, that high pass method is certainly worth a try. You can dial in the frequency response on the sub at various FR settings to see which sounds better. I am thinking letting the sub handle everything below 40hz for starters. This should keep the HK from having to spend most of its power driving your front mains. You WOULD probably benifit with an outboard amp as well but trying this should give you some pretty good results with music. Also check to see how the HK handles bass management as you may have to disconnect the low pass input to the sub, forcing the sub=no option on the receiver. Hopefully by doing that (sub=no), your HK sends all the bass to the front mains when set to large. So the sub should still be effective in HT mode.
Charles

#11 of 17 DanFP

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Posted March 14 2003 - 03:40 AM

Charles;
The HK manual says turn Sub ON when optional subwoofer is connected to the Subwoofer Preamp Output. This is my current connection which I will remove.

It goes on to say if I set subwoofer to OFF then all low frequency sounds (below 100Hz) will be routed to the front left/right speakers. That's what I want. I will set it to OFF.

btw> I also have the front mains bi-amp'd. I have the HK pre-outs for front L/R routed to my old stereo AMP (SUMO Andromeda 2x200 watts). The Andromeda speaker outs are routed to the high frequency (Treble) half of the front L/R mains, so it should co-esist nicely with this new wiring setup. Note that the original bi-amping produced a large and noticable improvement over the HK 85 watt single feed.

I should be able to complete the new wiring this weekend.
Thanks again.
Dan

#12 of 17 DanFP

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Posted March 14 2003 - 04:38 AM

Quote:
All of these options would be degradations in pure 2-channel sound, but they could certainly increase the bass level. Personally, I am thinking that your receiver isn't getting everything out of your Pinnacle speakers, so perhaps the added external amp would solve your bass problems. 26Hz response just shouldn't be leaving you wanting more bass.

Charles; I am also thinking that the HK 5x85 Watts is not getting everything out of my Pinnacle speakers. I noticed a huge 2-channel music improvement when I bi-amp'd the mains by adding my old stereo AMP (SUMO Andromeda 2x200 watts).

I will try rewiring HK->SUB->Mains first and see how that goes. Though, I still have upgrades in the back of my mind.
Thanks.
Dan

#13 of 17 DanFP

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Posted March 14 2003 - 04:40 AM

Excuse me; I meant Scott! :b

#14 of 17 Charles Gurganus

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Posted March 14 2003 - 07:53 AM

Dan, JFYI, you can edit your post by clicking on the edit icon on the post. Posted Image
Charles

#15 of 17 Jimmy Kilgour

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Posted March 15 2003 - 01:10 AM

Dan,
As the very,very happy owner of a pair of Pinnacle Aerogel towers for the past couple of years I think you will be much happier with external amplification.I'm powering mine with a Parasound AVC-2500U pre/pro and Parasound HCA-1205A amp (140w x 5) and never have to use my subwoofer for music.I have never heard the Sherbourn amp, but I've heard nothing put positive comments from people who have-it should make the Pinnacles sing.
P.S. I think we're part of a very small minority who own Pinnacle speakers on this forum- I also have the Gold Mini-Center and Baby Boomer sub.

#16 of 17 DanFP

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Posted March 15 2003 - 02:27 AM

Well I completed the rewiring and I certainly have all the Bass I could ever want and then some.

Though, I'm still not quite satisfied with the 2-channel music. So, it's time to think about selling the 155 horsepower/70 mph jetski toy and buying some HT upgrade toys.

This will take a long time because I will have to build a new rack and I'm not sure when I will start. Thanks for all of your comments. I will start by doing lots of auditioning.

Thanks Jimmy for Pinnacle speaker perspective.
Dan

#17 of 17 Chu Gai

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Posted March 15 2003 - 03:32 AM

well that blows your chance at catching a record breaking home run from Barry Bonds!
For general guidelines on speaker placements and all that, consider this link from Dolby.
Also, there were some nice articles from Floyd Toole that may help in guiding you towards 7.1 or 5.1.




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