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WOW! How does SVS do it?!....


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47 replies to this topic

#1 of 48 terence

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Posted March 12 2003 - 04:22 PM

I have had my 20-39PC+ for about a week now and i have mostly listen to movies on it. So now that i have some vacation time i really wanted to listen to more music on it. I listen to mostly to rap, r&b, pop, jazz and some rock. Oh can't forget music videos and DVD-A. I used to be into car audio bass big time so i know how a nice system will produce bass and let me tell you, damn this sub is fast & accurate! IMO i believe rap offers some very complex bass tracks and you need a good driver, and a well designed enclosure to get great bass from some of these tracks that rap puts out these days. This sub shines on HT but really kicks ass on music as well, i don't know how many of you guys listen to rap on your subs or music period. If so you know alot of subs can't do both music & movies and alot of home subs i have audition from all price ranges, it was hit or miss. Some were great on music but sucked on movies and visa versa, this sub just keeps on amazing me. How SVS was able to get a home sub to do both i have no idea. I may be little late to notice this so...

Have any of you SVS owners notice this or is it just me?
Tee

"Enjoy Movies & Music."

My Home Theater

#2 of 48 David_Stein

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Posted March 12 2003 - 04:29 PM

ive had a CS+ for a week and i do listen to my fair share of hiphop. the bass is so tight and smooth that i hardly realize how loud it is until i walk out into the hallway.

#3 of 48 terence

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Posted March 12 2003 - 04:39 PM

Quote:
the bass is so tight and smooth that i hardly realize how loud it is until i walk out into the hallway.


Yes! That is the same thing that i too have notice. I'm in love with my music again.:b Posted Image
Tee

"Enjoy Movies & Music."

My Home Theater

#4 of 48 Loring

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Posted March 12 2003 - 05:58 PM

Damn you guys...My SVS sub is only an hour away but they will not deliver till tomorrow.

I can not wait to get my bad boy SVS 25-31PCi hooked up and powered. Ill be throwing some Heavy Rock, Punk, Industrial and a bunch of House/Dance, and finally some Celtic/renaissance music at it to see what it can do... hehehe Posted Image My neighbors will hate me from tomorrow on, either that or envy me...Muahahahhaha. Posted Image
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
~Loring

quote:Ye do not meddle in thee affairs of thy dragon, for thou art crunchy and taste good with thy katchup...

#5 of 48 Edward J M

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Posted March 12 2003 - 10:56 PM

You can thank Team SVS who designed the PC+ and CS+ for sweating the details on sound quality.

According to Tom V, the amount of computer aided R&D that went into designing the TC Sounds dB12 driver was nothing short of astounding. This driver offers an amazing combination of price and performance and SVS is understandably coy about releasing the T/S parameters.

Add to that a proprietary enclosure tubing that is far denser, stronger, thicker, and more acoustically inert than sono-tube, 1.5" thick birch end caps, and you've got one very rigid and strong enclosure that can withstand being tossed from the roof of the SVS R&D facility without damage (don't ask me how I know this).

After modeling a whole slew of enclosure alignments and tunes, SVS takes it a step further and quite simply breaks out the tools and starts building prototypes - and they listen. And they don't stop building and listening - no matter how long it takes - until it sounds "right" in all respects. And only then does it get the nod for final build.

With a whole litany of sub DIY web sites and software like WinISD, it's pretty easy to design a vented sub that looks good on paper - making it sound GREAT is a whole other ball game, and this is where customers most benefit from the literally thousands of hours poured into the development of each SV sub.

Regards,

Ed
Ed Mullen
Director - Technology and Customer Relations

SVS

www.svsound.com

"What we do in life, echoes in eternity."


#6 of 48 Alan Pummill

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Posted March 13 2003 - 09:47 AM

I recently held a HTF Meet at my house, and one of the guys brought his new 25-39 PCi SVS to swap out against my Paradigm PW-2200. That SVS blew me away!!

People here on the HTF tried to tell me about a year ago to go with a SVS, but I stubbornly insisted that I wouldn't buy it because I couldn't hear it first! Well now I've heard one, and I WANT ONE!!

What would a combination of these 2 subs sound like....?
SLEEPY AL
MAGGIE MAGIC!!

#7 of 48 JoeyTadeja

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Posted March 13 2003 - 02:01 PM

I am curious, if SVS can do what they can do with their subs, then what about these guys?

http://www.mjacousti....2ndcollage.pdf

http://www.mjacousti....ducts/ref1.htm

Their tiny Pro 50 sub goes down to an astonishing 15hz!

While their Reference I goes down to a freaking 10hz!!

These MJ Acoustics are amazing for their price. Unfortunately, i cannot find a dealer here in the US.

#8 of 48 Lynn Little

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Posted March 13 2003 - 02:31 PM

They look like Rel wannabees, not entirely a bad thing. I use a Rel Strata III with my N804s, driven by a Bryston 4B ST. The combination works extremely well for 2 channel music
Lynn Olan Little

#9 of 48 JoeyTadeja

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Posted March 13 2003 - 02:43 PM

They are actually competing against the Rel products. It is very popular in UK. Unfortunately, I cannot audition them since there is no dealer here in the US. I read that their prices are even better than the Rels. I also learned from users in UK forums that many preferred the MJ Acoustics over the Rels. I am looking for a compact sub that would fit my room and the Rel Quake are the ones that fit, as much as I would like to get a HSU VTF-2 or SVS 25-31PCi. I am also looking at the Velodyne CHT-10.

#10 of 48 Brian Bunge

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Posted March 13 2003 - 03:43 PM

Joey,

Why not check out the ACI Titan II? Many people prefer them to the REL's.
Brian Bunge
RAD Home Theater

#11 of 48 Robert_Gaither

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Posted March 13 2003 - 05:05 PM

The problem I have with all these companies claiming small subs with < 20hz performance is none of them ever publish stats of what it does at 20 hz or any frequency graphs worth mentioning. Though I bet these would be great in small bedrooms or a RV it just seems to me that none of these from a scientific point of view (hoffman's iron law) would be capable of significant output due to the woofer size (10" diameter?), throw (most look to be lucky to do 10mm one way), sealed (one of the most inefficient ways to build a sub), and of course power (100w and being crippled by not even having a port or PR in most cases, in addition to the small boxes they're put in). I sometimes wonder when people gush about these subs if the individuals that love these have ever felt anything with real bass in their lives (ie shot a large caliber gun, near a big block chevy with glass packs, rode a harley, heard a pipe organ in real life, etc)

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see such things exist, and would be the first to apologize for my short-sighted views, but based on what I usually see on most of these websites (diy), based on modeling drivers, and building a few subs I think it's hard enough to get a 15" to do it right powered by a proamp it makes me wonder if people are more in love with the upper harmonics than with the tactile sensation that real bass is imho.

#12 of 48 Edward J M

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Posted March 13 2003 - 07:29 PM

Amen, Robert. As the old saying goes, there's no substitute for cubic inches. And that goes for my AMERICAN SVS subwoofer, my hot rodded Harley, and you might as well throw in a few big bore shotguns while you're at it. Posted Image
Ed Mullen
Director - Technology and Customer Relations

SVS

www.svsound.com

"What we do in life, echoes in eternity."


#13 of 48 terence

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Posted March 14 2003 - 01:07 AM

There is nothing like a sub that can play LOW,CLEAN,LOUD & TIGHT!Posted Image Posted Image
Tee

"Enjoy Movies & Music."

My Home Theater

#14 of 48 Seth_L

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Posted March 14 2003 - 03:11 AM

Quote:
There is nothing like a sub that can play LOW,CLEAN,LOUD & TIGHT! Posted Image Posted Image
Yeah, and none of the subs that can meet your checklist use 10" drivers, 100W of power, sealed enclosures, or small boxes. Posted Image

Seth

#15 of 48 JoeyTadeja

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Posted March 14 2003 - 06:39 AM

I don't know but it seems that most professional reviewers seems to agree on what some compact subs can do with such small drivers and with very low bass extension hitting below 20Hz. Small subs would definitely do with smaller rooms like mine where space is also a premium.

http://www.mjacousti....o50reviews.htm
http://www.music-at-...s/spkrs_mj.html

I have yet to audition the ff compact subs:

Rel Acoustics Quake (23Hz)
http://www.rel.net/p...cts/Quake.shtml

Sunfire True Subwoofer Super Junior (22Hz)
http://www.sunfire.c...ubsuperjr.shtml

Anthony Gallo Acoustics MPS-150 (24Hz)
http://www.anthonyga....uk/mps150.html

ACI Force (20 Hz) - although this may be a little too big
http://www.audioc.co...Force/intro.htm

The Velodyne CHT-10 and ACI Titan II are also too big for my room.

#16 of 48 Seth_L

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Posted March 14 2003 - 08:20 AM

Joey,

What they're not telling you is you don't get 110dB at 20Hz. A lot of sub makers list the -10dB point as the low frequency extension point. Still others run massive amounts of gain to flatten the sub at 85dB. A given sub might be flat to 22Hz when playing at 85dB, but if you take the SPL to the max it'll roll off badly below 30Hz.

Rel - 23Hz (in room @ -6dB)

Sunfire - 22Hz (likely in room @ -3dB)

MPS-150 - 24Hz (likely in room @ likely -10dB)

ACI Force - 20Hz (likely in room @ -3dB)

So, first thing is they're "cheating" by putting the sub in a corner to pick up as much gain as possible. They probably all have some sort of active equalization to improve bass response at low volumes also.

Seth

#17 of 48 FrantzM

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Posted March 14 2003 - 11:02 AM

Seth

Have you measured the Sunfire and found out it is 22 Hz at -3dB. I have heard that incredible sub and it does go low, very low. How low I did not measure but the quality and quantity of bass coming from this sub is incredible. This said. Equalization is not in iteself a bad thing if judiciously done. It is possible through equalization to flatten the frequency response of a transducer, this means solid amplification, something the Sunfire does have in abundance.
I agree with you that a given sub could be flat from 20 Hz to 100 Hz at 85 dB and not around 100 dB but you better hear the Sunfire, it does go low and loud and authoritatively. The Sunfire are better used with Main speakers with abundant bass themselves, they are not woofers, the are(pun intended) True SUBwoofers. Crossover must be below 50 Hz and you have to carefully play around with positionning and the phase control to have it sound right

Sorry about the long post guys

Frantz

#18 of 48 Lynn Little

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Posted March 14 2003 - 02:38 PM

I bought my 16-46PC+ to replace my Sunfire True Sub MkII.

I know one thing. My 16-46PC+ is so much better in EVERY way than my Sunfire, it's freaking pathetic. There is absolutely NO comparison.
Lynn Olan Little

#19 of 48 Lynn Little

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Posted March 14 2003 - 02:45 PM

"The Sunfire are better used with Main speakers with abundant bass themselves, they are not woofers, the are(pun intended) True SUBwoofers. Crossover must be below 50 Hz and you have to carefully play around with positionning and the phase control to have it sound right"

That is extremely true.
Lynn Olan Little

#20 of 48 Dan Hine

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Posted March 14 2003 - 04:33 PM

Quote:
Have you measured the Sunfire and found out it is 22 Hz at -3dB. I have heard that incredible sub and it does go low, very low. How low I did not measure


John Johnson measured the Subwoofer Junior. At maximum output it was down 10db at 25hz. And @ 20hz there was a lot of distortion so he did not even take that measurement into account. Now, sure, it's a 9" cube what do you expect? Posted Image But it all depends on what you want. If you want bass down into the teens with very little distortion you must look elsewhere.

Quote:
you have to carefully play around with positioning and the phase control to have it sound right


You've just described every subwoofer worth owning. Posted Image
I strive to be the man my dog thinks I am.


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