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My Car is on the fritz AGAIN


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22 replies to this topic

#1 of 23 OFFLINE   Mark C Sherman

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Posted March 06 2003 - 02:24 AM

I own a 2000 VW Jetta VR6. for the first year I had no problems I mean none. Last year I was driving and the Check engine light came on and my car starting sputtering and acting all weird. I went to my dealer to have them take a look. Well Come to find out it was my front O2 sensor so they replaced it. My car ran Fine then it happened again. They found that the REAR O2 sensor was Bad so they replaced that but it fouled my front one. Because I had 2 bad O2 sensors it fouled my CAT which was replaced. So now I had 2 new O2 sensors and a new CAT, problem solved. WRONG the EMS or EPC was sending the wrong info to the engine so I had that replaced. This all happened less then 8 months ago but took over 2 months to fix with me going back for each BAD part. Now My car is doing the same thing all over again. What should I do? should I demand a new engine? Should I see if they are willing to Trade my car for another car just like mine. Ill take a yours you keep mine and you deal with it. I only have 55K on the car and it has 100K warr.
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#2 of 23 OFFLINE   Dave Poehlman

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Posted March 06 2003 - 03:14 AM

Too m-many acronyms.... h-head is going to.... explode!


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#3 of 23 OFFLINE   Mark C Sherman

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Posted March 06 2003 - 03:23 AM

Sorry David. Thats what they called them I have no Idea what they mean
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#4 of 23 OFFLINE   Zen Butler

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Posted March 06 2003 - 03:27 AM

Well, since you have a warranty. That kind of rules out them setting you up. Unless, they are extemely slow, most techs hate warranty work, it doesn't pay very well.
I would talk with the Service Manager, (not your Advisor). Explain how many times you have come in. Make it very matter of fact. "Why can't you pinpoint my problem?" This really gets under the skin of Advisors and Managers. This may cause them to put added pressure on the technicians. Make it a point to tell them what an inconvenience this is to you. An o2 sensor is a very common problem on your vehicle. I have never encountered the sequence you have described though.

Most likely, you will not be able to trade across. I'm sure though, they will let let you trade-up Posted Image

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#5 of 23 OFFLINE   Aurel Savin

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Posted March 06 2003 - 04:03 AM

Mark, I do not own a Jetta, but I do remember this same problem being a common problem on quite a few Jettas. The local WABC affiliate even ran a special report on it here in NY. You might want to look into it.

#6 of 23 OFFLINE   Scott L

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Posted March 06 2003 - 06:26 AM

Could you possibly try a different dealership?

#7 of 23 OFFLINE   Julian Reville

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Posted March 06 2003 - 06:45 AM

I would trade that one in, right now. It was probably built on a Monday or Friday. Posted Image

#8 of 23 OFFLINE   Mark C Sherman

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Posted March 06 2003 - 06:49 AM

[quote] Could you possibly try a different dealership? [quote]


When I first had the Trouble I went to the dealer up the street from my office. they Plugged my car and said they could not find a thing wrong with it a day later it started acting up.
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#9 of 23 OFFLINE   Mike Lenthol

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Posted March 06 2003 - 08:15 AM

I would not call that repair history anything out of the ordinary for a VW in a 2 year period. Did you have a Toyota/Honda as your last car?Posted Image

#10 of 23 OFFLINE   Mark C Sherman

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Posted March 06 2003 - 08:33 AM

Toyota Tacoma,
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#11 of 23 OFFLINE   Steve Schaffer

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Posted March 06 2003 - 12:55 PM

Mark, Let 'em fix it under warranty one more time, then head straight for your nearest Toyota, Honda, or Nissan store to trade it in. VW and Audi products are really cool to look at and when running properly are a ball to drive. They do not even approach the Japanese makes when it comes to long term trouble-free ownership however.
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#12 of 23 OFFLINE   jinksee

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Posted March 07 2003 - 07:03 AM

[quote] VW and Audi products are really cool to look at and when running properly are a ball to drive. They do not even approach the Japanese makes when it comes to long term trouble-free ownership however. [quote]
Funny, except for a coil pack issue on my 02' A4 (which is a recall issue), I have not had any problems with either my VW's or Audi's.

Mark,

Let them try to fix the issue one more time. But, tell the service advisor you have and the service manager that you are going to open a complaint with VW corporate. Then call the VW 800 number and register a complaint. Make sure you write down everything about the call.

If you then have the problem again, take the car to the dealership and call VW and tell them you want the area representitive to examine the vehicle and tell them about your previous call. Once you have the area rep involved, corporate is involved and you will have some recorse to actually getting the problem fixed properly or maybe getting a great trade in value.

Of course, if you want a new car, take it in and see what they will give you on trade in. But a car with 55k miles has very little chance of a dealer buy back. And of course, the 337 is out. Whee!

You may also want to post this question on www.vwvortex.com in the Mk IV forum.

#13 of 23 OFFLINE   Jason Reich

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Posted March 07 2003 - 11:13 AM

I have owned Nissan, Honda, Acura, Mazda, etc and none of them even come close to the quality and reliability of my Audi. I have 102,000 miles, and aside from tires, brake pads, and timing belt(done as recommended not repair) the car has been the best automobile I have owned. I am currently looking into another Audi, most likely an Allroad for my wife. An Audi will be my next car too. I travel for work all over Upstate New York, and I am VERY hard on cars, the Audi takes it all and asks for more! None of the Japanese cars mentioned can even compare to the fit and finish of a quality German auto. Back to the orginal topic.... I would give VW one more chance to come clean. If it it not resolved I would call VW number as mentioned above, I am confident they will do whatever it takes to make you a satisfied VW owner.
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#14 of 23 OFFLINE   Brae

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Posted March 07 2003 - 02:14 PM

On December 29, 2002 (I think) my driver's side O2 sensor went out. I was told that both pre-cat O2 sensors had been replaced. Well, last week the passenger's side pre-cat sensor went out and I got concerned that this was turning into a chronic problem. On this visit to the dealership's service department I spoke to the service manager. He said that the passenger's side pre-cat O2 sensor was not replaced in my first visit. No apology on the misinformation I got. Hmm. If that didn't beat all, the passenger-side pre-cat sensor was frozen into the passenger's-side exhaust manifold. So, the replaced both. Keep ni mind that I had this 2001 Toyota Tundra for 18 months and both of these repair visits were under warranty. BUT, (and there is always a BUT in the picture) at the time of the second visit my truck at 28400 miles on it and the O2 sensor is not covered under any warranty but the bumper-to-bumper warranty. This means that in four months my B2B warranty goes bye-bye. The O2 sensors are not covered under either the drivetrain warranty (60K miles/60 months) or the emissions warranty (80/80)--emissions only covers the cat. So, I asked what an O2 sensor repair costs and its about $200 if they come out without a hassle, $600 is the exhaust manifold won't release it, and about $400-500 for a troubled post-cat sensor repair. Great, and I just had two go out on me in two months.

#15 of 23 OFFLINE   Steve Schaffer

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Posted March 07 2003 - 05:19 PM

Just found the following over at the J.D. Power website:


J.D. Power and Associates Reports:
Lexus Continues to Set the Industry Benchmark
In Long-Term Vehicle Dependability
Problems Reported at Four to Five Years of Ownership
Drops 7 Percent for the Industry
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: November 21, 2002
WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif.—Lexus ranks highest in long-term dependability for the eighth consecutive year, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2002 Vehicle Dependability Index (VDI) StudySM released today. All of the top five ranking nameplates in the study are Japanese brands, with Infiniti, Acura, Honda and Toyota following Lexus, respectively.
The study finds that at 159 problems per 100 vehicles (PP100), the average four- to five-year-old Lexus has fewer problems than the average 1998 model-year vehicle did when it was new (176 PP100). Lexus owners report the smallest increase in problems of any nameplate, as measured at 90 days of ownership to the four- to five-year mark.
"Lexus vehicles certainly benefit from their consistency in long-term dependability," said Brian Walters, director of product research at J.D. Power and Associates. "VDI measures vehicle problems at a critical stage, when many owners are considering replacing their vehicles. The perception of strong long-term dependability can translate into both high resale value and strong owner loyalty to the nameplate. More than one-half of new-vehicle buyers indicate that long-term durability is an important consideration when choosing which make of vehicle to purchase."
Among the 15 nameplates scoring above industry average in the 2002 VDI, eight are Japanese brands (Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Nissan and Mazda); four are domestic (Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln and Mercury); and three are European (Porsche, Jaguar and BMW).
The industry has improved vehicle dependability by 27 PP100 in 2002—a 7 percent increase over 2001. Interestingly, industry-level new-vehicle quality, as measured by the J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study (IQS),SM has also shown an annual average improvement of just under 7 percent over the past four years.
"Six of the top 10 problems in VDI are also among the problem symptoms that have experienced the greatest deterioration between IQS and VDI, suggesting that many of the vehicle quality issues that arise early in the ownership period not only persist, but worsen with time and mileage," said Walters. "For most problems measured in IQS and VDI, the opportunity for product improvement occurs in the design and engineering phases of future model replacements."
The Vehicle Dependability Index Study, now in its 13th year, is based this year on survey responses from more than 30,000 original owners of 1998 model-year vehicles. The study monitors the number and type of problems owners have with their four- to five-year-old vehicles and covers 137 specific problem areas in nine categories.
Headquartered in Westlake Village, Calif., J.D. Power and Associates is a global marketing information services firm operating in key business sectors including market research, forecasting, consulting, training and customer satisfaction. The firm's quality and satisfaction measurements are based on responses from millions of consumers annually. Media e-mail contact: michael.greywitt@jdpa.com or john.tews@jdpa.com
No advertising or other promotional use can be made of the information in this release without the express prior written consent of J.D. Power and Associates. www.jdpa.com
# # #

=======================================

I don't see Audi or VW on that list, but to be fair they don't say how much lower they scored than Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Nissan and Mazda.
Steve S.
I prefer not to push the subwoofers until they're properly run in.

#16 of 23 OFFLINE   Brae

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Posted March 08 2003 - 12:35 AM

J.D.Powers is a mixed bag. A friend has his Lexus in the shop right now. Its out of warranty (due to mileage) and only 2.5 years old. What I would find interesting is that of the mechanism in which J.D.Powers conducts their research. We know we have to rule out the dealership's service department due to a bias be a potential skewing element. Then, one has to ask what J.D. Powers does to filter out those bad reports from owners that perform below the suggested maintenance as defined by the automakers. Next, one must also consider that typically (not a rule, here) someone that can afford a more expensive means of transport can usually justify sticking to that recommended maintenance schedule than someone only able to afford a less expensive means of transport. Then still there is the variables for maintenance on end-of-lease tracking of vehicles. You could find someone buying a 4-5 year old post-lease vehicle that was maintained poorly even though the current owner is maticulous in the maintenance. Still further one must also adjust/filter for recalls, TSB's, weathered vehciles, post-deployment fleet vehicles, etc. I think you know where I am going with this. Its hard to find, on average, someone properly maintaining the world's most inexpensive vehcile if that is all they can afford vs. someone that is wealthy beyond an automaker's dream and just too lazy to have their man friday change the oil. Also, consider the shear amount of vehicles in non-original owner's hands only adds to the potential of skewing the results. Not advocating Audi or knocking Lexus, but just acknowledging the potential for biased, skewed, and flawed results that can come into play at JDP.

#17 of 23 OFFLINE   Tim Morton

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Posted March 08 2003 - 10:27 AM

Jason: you wrote [quote] have owned Nissan, Honda, Acura, Mazda, etc and none of them even come close to the quality and reliability of my Audi. [quote]

Are you HIGH? I own a 2000 honda Accord and before that a 1989 accord with over 200k miles on it...NO WAY does an audi( or its baby sister jeta) compare to a honda in trms of reliablity. Audi's are nice if you lease them and have the time to get them in an out of the shop every few month's...but honda's are bullet proof.

#18 of 23 OFFLINE   Brae

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Posted March 08 2003 - 11:22 AM

Tim, your experiences with Honda are NOT the rule. My wife bought a 1995 Honda Accord Coupe EX on June 1995. She has had the regular maintenance done via the dealership's service department, including the aggressive service schedules that go above and beyond Honda's own recommendation. For instance, she has them change the motor oil every 3,000 miles (that's nuts) and the timing belt every 60K miles (even when they tell her every 90K miles). Of course, none of this mattered when the ABS accumulator went out twice (2x$375 unwarranted repairs), another ABS component failure ($1400 unwarranted repair after I beat it down from $2K), driver's power window motor assembly twice (2x$350) out of warranty (she never uses the damn thing unless on a rare occasion she uses a drive-through ATM), etc. And these are just some of the things outside of the regular maintenance and advance maintenance activities. If I were to look at it from a $/mileage perspective then its about 2.5 cents per mile for non-warranty repairs nor any maintenance. The annual non-warranty REPAIR is about $430. Now, I hardly call that bulletproof. This is her daily driver with +90% of her annual mileage on the highway. I will say the remarkable thing is that her AC hasn't gone out, which (believe it or not) was the one thing I was sure would go out. Also, I have not mention one single item that failed on the vehicle that was covered under warranty. Would you like to hear them? If Honda's were bulletproof then I would keep seeing them in the service departments for a bunch of non-general maintenance issues. Please understand three thing: 1) I sold Honda's for a summer (hated selling cars). 2) Wife is never getting another Honda Accord again. 3) Like your experiences, our Honda's experiences are also not the rule.

#19 of 23 OFFLINE   Steve Schaffer

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Posted March 08 2003 - 05:17 PM

Brae, It would be interesting to know if J.D. Power only surveyed original owners of these cars or also those who bought off-lease cars. I would tend to think that more of the luxury or near luxury brands are originally leased and not purchased. I also tend to think folks who lease a car for 2 or 3 years are less likely to have the proper maintenance done. Toyota is having a problem with folks who lease for 3 years, do no maintenance at all (not even oil changes) then scream bloody murder when the engine sludges up and grenades at 25-30k miles, and I've seen some evidence that extended oil change intervals are causing problems for BMW also. I have actually gotten a survey form from Consumer Reports, and they specifically state that they only want responses from car owners who've had the car since new. Another factor to consider is the influence the quality and competence of the dealer service has on the customer's perception of quality. If a problem crops up and the dealer fixes it quickly and competently the first time, the customer's perception of the vehicle's quality will be higher than if repeated attempts fail to fix the car. I don't know about your part of the country but here in Central California, away from LA and SF areas Audi (and VW to a large extent) are fairly very low volume sellers usually sold almost as a sideline by a multi-make dealer. The chances of their service techs being fully competent and experienced with obscure problems are not as high as at a dealership that handles Honda or Toyota. On the other hand, a long-time VW-Audi dealership in a large metro area may be much better at properly repairing niggly problems. Also, different mfgs have different attitudes about tech support to thier dealers. Toyota has a tech support phone line available to us during normal business hours, as well as web-based tech support making it very easy to access service bulletins or even solutions to problems that haven't made it to service bulletin status yet. BTW, that Honda ABS problem you had is not an isolated case. We sold Isuzu for a few years, including their Oasis minivan which was a rebadged 1st generation Honda Odyssey. The ABS unit failure rate on them was unusually high. Audi being an enthusiast oriented car, I think they may run into problems with non-enthusiast owners who don't understand that some tradeoffs are involved in producing a car with superior handling and braking. For example, the brakes are engineered first and foremost for excellent response and fade resistance, so they may occasionally squeak when cold and piss grandma off enough to complain to J.D. Power. Combine this with the chance that the Audi dealer may not have a single tech capable of properly diagnosing a check engine light and you have a recipe for a bad reputation which may not necessarily be entirely deserved.
Steve S.
I prefer not to push the subwoofers until they're properly run in.

#20 of 23 OFFLINE   Mark C Sherman

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Posted March 11 2003 - 01:23 AM

Hello All Sorry That I have not been here in a couple of days but I have some news for you.



When I went into the dealership to see what was wrong with my car they plugged it in and found that my Coil was faulty and was causing my engine to misfire on 1 and 3. After they told me that it was going to cost almost $600.00 to fix it I almost lost it but I kept my cool. I called VW of America and Told them that since I have had my car I have had a major problem almost every 6-8 months ETC ETC and that no matter what the case I bring it to my dealer to have it fixed.


Long Story Short It cost me nothing, ZIPP, ZILCH, NADA, to get my car fixed.Posted Image
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