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Police "Every Breath you take" Hybrid SACD


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#1 of 88 OFFLINE   John Royster

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Posted March 04 2003 - 03:27 AM

Got an e-mail from amazon today...

"Dear Amazon.com Customer,

As someone who has purchased albums by Police, you might like to know that Every Breath You Take: The Classics (SACD Hybrid) is now available. You can order yours at a savings of $5.49 by following the link below."

amazon.com product link

I couldn't find any more info about the release even by searching HTF. Looks like there was some discussion about a possible police SACD relase. Maybe this is it.

Darnit! As if my box set wasn't good enough now I just HAVE to have this SACD. Posted Image

Funny there is no mention of SACD on the link. Can anyone verify this is a hybrid?

#2 of 88 OFFLINE   Lee Scoggins

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Posted March 04 2003 - 03:31 AM

Yes, the Greatest Hits will be a hybrid. Posted Image

I cannot wait for this one.
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#3 of 88 OFFLINE   Jeremy

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Posted March 04 2003 - 03:37 AM

I just received all 5 SACD remasters of the original studio albums. Sadly, I don't have an SACD player here at work.

Also, they mistaken put a Hybrid sticker on my copy of Synchronicity. All the others say SACD Player Only.
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#4 of 88 OFFLINE   John Royster

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Posted March 04 2003 - 03:37 AM

drool...

Even the PCM box set is very well recorded/transfered. Lee, I saw you post on another area about re-masters. Is it commonplace to do the DSD sampling off the analog tape?

#5 of 88 OFFLINE   Rich Malloy

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Posted March 04 2003 - 03:41 AM

Anybody think the "Classics" hybrid disc will be available everywhere, even at places that don't normally stock SACD/DVD-A, just like the ABKCO Stones hybrids?

I'm hoping I can at least pick this one up on my way home, hopefully at Newbury Comics which had the best prices on the Stone hybrids locally. (I think I'll get the rest at Circuit City, but not on my way home tonight...)
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#6 of 88 OFFLINE   Dan Joy

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Posted March 04 2003 - 04:59 AM

Quote:
Anybody think the "Classics" hybrid disc will be available everywhere, even at places that don't normally stock SACD/DVD-A, just like the ABKCO Stones hybrids?


Yes, I bought mine yesterday at BB for 14.99. It was in the back in a box. Their computer listed 12 on hand and a BB employee was kind to go look. Because the computer listed an original street date of last week, he could sell it to me. Unlike the Stones, this is clearly labeled SACD and has a sticker that says plays on SACDs and cds. I am finding the surround mix very enjoyable except for the last two songs which sound very digitally edgy. There is some panning of sound and some sounds I never heard before. I came home late from work last night, made a large Tanguray and Tonic, shut off the lights and really enjoyed the mix. I don't have any other re-masters of said group to compare.
GO BLACKHAWKS !!!

#7 of 88 OFFLINE   Leo

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Posted March 04 2003 - 05:16 AM

Well picked up my copy of Every Breath You Take - The Classics at BB today (I have the others shipping from Towerrecords.com) but wanted something to listen to while they were enroute. The hybrid SACD/CD were mixed in with the regular CD selection at Best Buy. But they were not stocking any of the remasters on the shelf. Don't know if this store hadn't gotten them or if they were not going to stock them. Can't wait to get home to take a listen to this disc.

#8 of 88 OFFLINE   Rich Malloy

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Posted March 04 2003 - 05:24 AM

At my local Best Buy (Landmark Center, Boston), the SACDs are kept well-hidden on a tiny, unorganized shelf in the home theater hardware section (aisles and aisles away from all the CD/DVDs/etc.). They're trying very, very hard to make sure that no one finds them...
"Only one is a wanderer;
Two together are always going somewhere."

#9 of 88 OFFLINE   Leo

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Posted March 04 2003 - 05:49 AM

Yeah, we need to complain about that. They could put them in a section near the regular CD's. Media Play does this and has both DVD-A and SACD in a single section.

#10 of 88 OFFLINE   Rich Malloy

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Posted March 04 2003 - 06:52 AM

I just returned from Best Buy (Landmark Center, Boston)...

They DO NOT have the SACD remasters (or the redbook remasters) with the exception of "The Singles" (priced at $15.99).

However, unlike Leo's experience, "The Singles" hybrid disc was not located in the bins with the other CDs, but rather in the "SACD section", which is buried in the home theater hardware portion of the store (completely unknown to most BB employees -- I had to find it myself several months ago, and it's very easy to overlook even when you know roughly where it should be).

After my discovery of "The Singles" hybrid, I found an employee who admitted to knowing about these titles. He informed me that they had not received the SACD-only releases and was unsure if they would. He also explained that they were directed by corporate to banish "The Singles" hybrid disc to the SACD section (if they could find it). I pointed out that this disc is a so-called "single inventory" release that's meant to replace the old CD (of which, there were many in the regular CD bins). He shrugged.

If you go over there, please find someone to complain to. That is, if you really care about SACD going mainstream. Something I wished I'd said: "On 3/25, one of the biggest selling albums of all time will be released on a single-inventory hybrid disc. Do you plan to bury it in the back, as well?"
"Only one is a wanderer;
Two together are always going somewhere."

#11 of 88 OFFLINE   Justin Lane

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Posted March 04 2003 - 07:49 AM

Quote:
After my discovery of "The Singles" hybrid, I found an employee who admitted to knowing about these titles. He informed me that they had not received the SACD-only releases and was unsure if they would. He also explained that they were directed by corporate to banish "The Singles" hybrid disc to the SACD section (if they could find it). I pointed out that this disc is a so-called "single inventory" release that's meant to replace the old CD (of which, there were many in the regular CD bins). He shrugged.


Rich, this is not surprising to me at all. Recently at Best Buy I was greeted by two different employees who tried to guide me to the CD section instead of shopping in the SACD section. After telling them I did indeed wish to purchase SACD, they let me in on that fact that Best Buy management informed them to do so. It seems like Best Buy is tired of people buying single layer SACD discs and returning them, because they will not play on the non-sacd hardware that most people own. There seems to be a corporate initiative to steer people away from the SACD sections instead of educating consumers on the new format (which could help spark sales in the long run). This is not a very good sign for SACD when one of the largest audio/electronics retailers in the country has told their employees to guide people away from SACD.

Quote:
If you go over there, please find someone to complain to. That is, if you really care about SACD going mainstream. Something I wished I'd said: "On 3/25, one of the biggest selling albums of all time will be released on a single-inventory hybrid disc. Do you plan to bury it in the back, as well?"

It wouldn't surprise me if Best Buy places DSOTM in the back with the SACD releases out of sight out of mind. Even if they do not, what I do see happening is them placing the new disc mixed in with the older copies of DSOTM they already have on their shelves. You can still find the non-remastered versions of the Stones in most stores. It seems like Best Buy leaves older inventory on the shelves instead of pulling it when new copies are released.

J

#12 of 88 OFFLINE   Rich Malloy

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Posted March 04 2003 - 08:21 AM

Just to be clear, I'm not faulting Best Buy for putting the SACD-only titles in a different section (likewise DVD-A and DTS, if they carried them). There is a very great potential for customer confusion, returns, etc.

But the "single inventory" hybrid disc is different. It is, as I said, utterly fool-proof. Any machine that someone tries to put it in (CD player, SACD player, DVD player) will play it. Even assuming that our hypothetical fool is utterly and perpetually confused, and so long as he doesn't try to wedge it into his tape-deck or spin it on his turntable, he'll be fine.

So, Best Buy puts the Rolling Stones single-inventory discs in the right place, but not the Police disc? And, perhaps, not the Pink Floyd disc either? None of these record companies are releasing "CD Only" versions of these discs - these represent the "new inventory", regardless of format - and I can only imagine that they'd be livid to discover that one of the biggest retailers is thwarting their move to simplify the format, make it fool-proof, blah blah. Every Best Buy customer who buys the old version of "The Singles" release (at a higher price, I should add) is getting screwed... and they probably don't even realize it.

Here's hoping that some of them do... and that they'll complain, seek returns, etc.!
"Only one is a wanderer;
Two together are always going somewhere."

#13 of 88 OFFLINE   Michael St. Clair

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Posted March 04 2003 - 08:31 AM

Quote:
likewise DVD-A and DTS, if they carried them

Doesn't every Best Buy carry DVD-A and DTS CDs in the Music area of the DVD section?

#14 of 88 OFFLINE   Leo

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Posted March 04 2003 - 08:36 AM

The other thing that doesn't help Best Buy is the fact that they only have one (maybe two) SACD players in stock. Most all still have the poorly set up 755 changer off to the side where they stock the SACD's. Maybe this will change when more "consumer priced" units make their way to the shelf. But I agree, if we continue to get hybrid disc replacing normal stock, then the stores will not experience the returns because there is a normal CD layer included.

#15 of 88 OFFLINE   Dan Joy

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Posted March 04 2003 - 10:25 AM

Quote:
But the "single inventory" hybrid disc is different. It is, as I said, utterly fool-proof. Any machine that someone tries to put it in (CD player, SACD player, DVD player) will play it. Even assuming that our hypothetical fool is utterly and perpetually confused, and so long as he doesn't try to wedge it into his tape-deck or spin it on his turntable, he'll be fine.


Well not necessarily! Some dvd-rom pc(like mine :<( ) and dvd players have been known not to play sacd hybrids at all!

Perhaps ABKO and the Stones knew what they were doing all along by not listing any sacd info on the re-masters!
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#16 of 88 OFFLINE   Michael Gilliam

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Posted March 04 2003 - 10:31 AM

To the initial point of this thread, may I say that the new Police-The Classics SACD is great, both in stereo and multichannel. The multichannel mix is much better than the mix on the DTS-CD. I do not own the redbook CD of The Classics, so I could not compare the regular CD layers. I own Every Breath You Take-The Singles, and the CD layer on the new hybrid is much better. Very highly recommended.

(Sorry this is so long, I just feel that I have to say something. This is not so much a rant as it is an explanation/series of thoughts/letter urging fellow HTF readers to let stores know how you feel on issues concerning the SACD/DVD-A/high resolution formats). To speak on the Best Buy issue, the SACDs that are returned are done so b/c the customers are perusing the audio/home theater department and see the discs, and immediately think "oh, CDs, yes, let me pick some." They've no clue that they are picking up SACDs in the first place, although there is a display above the racks describing what is there-in every store.

The reason why the SACD displays are in audio or the home theater department of BB is because you have to have an SACD compatible player for playback. Whether it is the 775 or one of the combo DVD/SACD players, these components have to be in these departments by nature. They are home audio/video entertainment components which require receivers, speakers, cables, etc.....thus, best served in the aforementioned departments. It is there in hopes the customers will hear the display (hopefully it's set up well) and become interested, or at least learn about the fact that a new format is available. Sony and Philips invented the CD, and the majority of the players for SACDs are manufactured by Sony. When SACD first came out, the majority of the discs available were from Sony and its labels. That's why the SACDs are there. Sony also pays for that section of real estate for their display. Bottom line, you're not going to have the SACDs in the media department with the other discs (with the exception of the Rolling Stones, which is obviously a big seller and the first mass-produced hybrid SACDs). Don't get me wrong, I support the idea of hybrids being stocked amongst the regular stacks. I think it builds support for the format when people who do not own an SACD player buy a hybrid disc and read on the inside of the packaging that the 'really sweet' tracks can be accessed with an SACD player. This obviously helps build interest and I believe it will help generate more demand. To answer another question--yes, the DTS-CDs and DVD-A discs are at the end of the DVD music section.

There has been an increase in the number of hybrid titles available, and this helps the format. The recent wave of SACDS by Universal had quite a few hybrids, and they are selling very well. Of course, more popular and mainstream titles are making their way to SACD. The Rolling Stones, The Police, Peter Gabriel, Pink Floyd...they are actually titles people are more interested in and will buy. Hybrid is the way to go-while the old stereo only/SACD only discs languish on the shelves. As far as the old redbook CDs being sent back? The old ones that are left are there until ordered back; however, there are no new arrivals of the old ABKCO Stones discs.

As far as the BB employees who claim management told them not to push SACDs, well that's just absurd. If it did happen, however, find out the name of the manager and consult him/her. It's probably just some lame employee who is trying to reason his/her way out of their own ignorance for not knowing what products they sell.

As with any new format, and with such issues we're discussing now, it takes recognition and education. Let management know you're there to buy these SACDs, let them know it's important to consumers. Let them know you think the hybrid discs should be kept in the regular stacks as well to help push the product. Don't just tell the employees, not all of them will care-unfortunately. Let management know how you feel. It's all about positive feedback, and I'm sure the managers will appreciate it. If it helps the customers, it helps them. I love the high resolution formats, and I love talking about them because they're great and I want them to catch on. I'm thankful we have HTF for us to discuss these issues--but don't let your thoughts end here. Tell management. It's the only way things will happen.

#17 of 88 OFFLINE   Greg Johnson

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Posted March 04 2003 - 11:43 AM

Sorry but I have to get on my soap box and rant about Best Buy. Why should any of us continue to support a retailer that doesn't support the format? I will not step foot into a Best Buy to purchase either hirez format. Not to mention their lame selection of SACD. The last time I was there browsing through the DVD-A titles I had to practically lay on my belly to look at them. That is at the store in Rockford where I live and the store in Schaumburg where I work.
I buy all of my music online anymore. I purchase almost all of my SACD's from musicdirect Not only have they given me excellent service. Since I live 60 miles west of Chicago. If I place an order before 3:00 PM the discs are sitting on my front porch the next day. Sorry for the rant but I really dislike that store.
Back to the topic at hand. I plan to buy everyone of these Police SACD's when they are released. I already have the DTS version of Every Breath You Take and was wondering if anyone else has both versions to compare.

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#18 of 88 OFFLINE   Michael Gilliam

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Posted March 04 2003 - 08:41 PM

Greg,

The new SACD MCH is quite better than the DTS CD. It has more natural mix while the DTS CD is quite gimmicky in comparison. I've loved having the DTS CD--until now.

I was really amazed by the stereo version on the SACD as well. It's a great disc and well worth picking up.

#19 of 88 OFFLINE   KeithH

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Posted March 04 2003 - 10:42 PM

I picked up the Every Breath You Take -- The Classics hybrid SACD at a local Best Buy yesterday for $15.99. This was the only new Police disc they had, and it was located in the CD department. So, they had no remastered CDs or single-layer SACDs. They had about 15 copies of Classics in the CD department and no copies in the SACD department.

Not ready to give up, I asked someone at Best Buy about the other new Police discs, hoping that they had not yet put them out. He checked their computer system and found that they had no other Police discs in stock. Interestingly, the computer system said that all the new Police discs (CDs and SACDs) were released on February 26th. The employee concluded that they had gotten all the discs in last week and had sold out of everything except for Classics. I doubt that. Posted Image

While the Classics disc is in a digipak, which is a travesty in my opinion, not all is lost. Fortunately, the booklet can be removed, as opposed to being pasted in or having the information printed directly on the cardboard. This means I can put the booklet in a jewel case! Posted Image

On to the sound. I have only listened to the stereo SACD track thus far, but I am thoroughly impressed. It is outstanding. The sound is rich and full. The guitars and percussion are right there. Just incredible layering and soundstage. Now, I have not yet compared the stereo SACD track to the CD layer or my various Police CDs, but I still am very pleased with the SACD.

I was in a discussion of this SACD on another forum yesterday, and someone made a very interesting point. If you listen to "Walking on the Moon" on the stereo SACD layer, you can hear some rustling out of the left speaker at the beginning of the song. It sounds like someone rustling papers or moving something. It's really cool. I wonder if this rustling comes through on the CD layer or on earlier Police CDs. I'll have to do the comparison. Has anyone heard this rustling on Police CDs? I don't remember it.
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#20 of 88 OFFLINE   Rich Malloy

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Posted March 05 2003 - 02:01 AM

I don't have the previous Police CD issues, and could only find "The Singles" at Best Buy yesterday. I'm sorry to have done it, folks, but rest assured that this marks the last time I ever patronize that lousy establishment. I can't believe I actually paid more than I would anywhere else... I'm a sucker, no doubt about it. Ah well, I'm a tiny bit smarter today, and, you know, fuck Best Buy and all that.

Anyway... given that I had only a small amount of time, I went back and forth between stereo and multichannel tracks. I can tell this is gonna be one of those SACDs where neither one is plainly superior to my ears, though initially I'm preferring the stereo tracks (of course, this could be because I'm more familiar with them... never heard the DTS disc). "Roxanne" strikes me as far too "reverby" in multichannel, for example.

This is nowhere near a reference disc. My favorite tracks (and the best sounding IMO) would be "Walking on the Moon", "Roxanne", "Can't Stand Losing You", "Invisible Sun" and "Spirits in the Material World". My least favorites are "De Do Do Do '86" and "Don't Stand So Close to Me '86", the former being entirely unforgivable, not only stripping every ounce of life from the song, but also presenting it in the worst sonic condition of any of the tracks. I quite simply hate it. I also thought all the Synchronicity tracks had a harsh, digital quality to them that runs counter to the usual "analog" warmth of SACD. Probably a function of the original recording, but I was not impressed. Still, I got caught up in "Wrapped Around Your Finger", proving that a good song can withstand even some fairly lifeless sonics (and maybe proving that it ain't quite so bad, after all, I guess). I also thought both mixes/masterings of "Message in a Bottle" were poor.

That said, I'll certainly get "Ghost in the Machine" and "Regatta de Blanc", and most likely "Zenyatta Mondata" and "Outlandos d'Amour", as well. I really, really feel like hearing "Walking on the Moon" right now... and I dig the multichannel mix on this one, to boot!
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Two together are always going somewhere."


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