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I believe that music prices are grossly inflated to support bribery


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22 replies to this topic

#1 of 23 OFFLINE   Rachael B

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Posted February 26 2003 - 04:54 AM

How can their be any other conclusion...? The label's "agents" buy air-time for songs. We consumers are suppourting crime by buying so-called legitimate releases. Is there really any such a thing anymore, in so much as the "big 5" are concerned? A purchase of big 5 music suppourts this criminal conspiracy to control the air waves and the flow of money. Is this really any different than, say, Dr. Evil manipulating the stock market?

If the government can't or won't clean up the music business, should we consumers take action? I say maybe? Since the public's airwaves are involved, it would seem that they should be charged with eliminating the corruption. Orin Hatch, of all people, is apparently intrested in the whole mess. Who knows, but there is that little thing called campaign contributions. We can't necessarily depend on the governent.

If the music industry doesn't get cleaned up by govenment action, I think consumers should go into full revolt. Arguably, many already are in revolt since they've quit buying music or mostly download it. Boycotting new, big 5 music wouldn't be all that hard, even for me a total mus-a-holic.Posted Image One could buy used records and CD's to their heart's content. Ultimately, a boycott might be the consumer's only leverage against the offenders?

I say it's time for the music biz to face the music. High CD prices suppourt "artistic terrorism" and a criminal conspiracy to control the airwaves. When we buy from them we feed the fire so to speak.
Rachael, the big disc cat is in real life Dot Mongur, Champion of the International Pacman Federation. You better be ready to rumble if you play Jr. Pacman with me. This is full contact Pacman and I don't just play the game, I operate it!


#2 of 23 OFFLINE   Phil A

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Posted February 26 2003 - 05:38 AM

Rachael, there are lots of factors that go into prices. You may find this interesting: http://www.nydailyne....1p-57008c.html

The music business is not unique. Look at prescription drugs and the drug cos. cutting off Canadian pharmacies selling to US citizens at substantially less than the same things are sold for here. Having spent a majority of my career in corporate america on the finance side before retiring just over a year ago I could write a book. I would do a very good job finding all the cooked books if I were in charge of governement oversight but they would never hire someone like me. It would just shake investor confidence too much by finding all that stuff. Corporate america has been that way for a long time and it will continue that way for the long haul. So just kick back, relax and enjoy the stuff as you can't control the weather. You can put on an umbrella and watch out for your own pocketbook though.

I have begun looking at stuff, including the music business, since when I get done with projects around the house in another year or two, I will probably seriously look at doing something different that I did before. Something that is much more fun.

#3 of 23 OFFLINE   John Watson

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Posted February 26 2003 - 06:04 AM

mass culture, giant shrimp, military intelligence, business ethics, and so on Posted Image

Good advice Phil

#4 of 23 ONLINE   Dennis Nicholls

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Posted February 26 2003 - 06:11 AM

Rachael, what you recount is part of the reason I turned my back on pop music in favor of classical music around 1975, and never looked back. However, it certainly isn't the most important reason! :P)
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#5 of 23 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted February 26 2003 - 06:47 AM

Rachael, I'm editing your title to make it clear that what you're stating is your opinion. Offered as a statement of confirmed fact, your title might be viewed by some as defamatory.

M.
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#6 of 23 OFFLINE   Rachael B

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Posted February 26 2003 - 09:23 AM

Read the investigation of Clear Channel thread links on the board presently. It just backs up what I read in the book Hitmen. Payola is illegal. Record companies have agents to break the law for them and they pass the cost on to us. Dennis, I would suggest that any big 5 CD you buy, classical or otherwise, contributes to the payola snowball rolling down the hill.

Michael, it is defamatory. Orin Hatch intends to lauch an investigation. It's not my oppinion that payola exists. Industry sources admit it. There's a well-know history of payola. It's just swelled up to it's most gigantic form ever. It's just time to smite it again, which is my oppinion. The business practices of the music industry would not be tolerated in any other business, and other businesses aren't too lily white as suggestd by Phil.

I wonder how much of each CD's price goes to compensate payola "agents"?

http://www.salon.com.../clear_channel/
Rachael, the big disc cat is in real life Dot Mongur, Champion of the International Pacman Federation. You better be ready to rumble if you play Jr. Pacman with me. This is full contact Pacman and I don't just play the game, I operate it!


#7 of 23 OFFLINE   Kevin Deacon

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Posted February 26 2003 - 09:50 AM

Did you notice that Nora Jones's cd went up in price after the grammys.

#8 of 23 OFFLINE   Phil A

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Posted February 26 2003 - 11:30 AM

Kevin it actually went up when the CD became a hit. I think it was around $12.99 list when I first got it and you could find it many places for around $10. It seems many places have put the grammy winners on sale and at least on a temporary basis it is a little cheaper than it was right before them. CDs from lesser known artists sell for less. I was in Best Buy earlier and picked up "Road to Perdition" on sale for $14.99 which I'll watch in a few minutes and bought a Telarc hybrid SACD and then saw a CD of an up and coming artist that I saw live about 6 weeks back and it was just $11.99 at regular price. You won't usually find that kind of pricing on more known artists (like N. Jones now).

#9 of 23 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted February 26 2003 - 11:38 AM

Quote:
Michael, it is defamatory.

Either you left out a "not", or you need to look up the word "defamatory". Posted Image

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#10 of 23 OFFLINE   Ron S

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Posted February 26 2003 - 01:31 PM

defamatory

De*fam"a*to*ry, a. Containing defamation; injurious to reputation; calumnious; slanderous; as, defamatory words; defamatory writings.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


While the defamatory statement can be untrue, it does not have to be. Injurious to reputation would be the way I would take it in this instance.

Hmm, at the risk of being censured, I must respectfully disagree with editing the title of the thread. We often read threads here with titles that are clearly the authors opinions. The author is, after all, the person that names the thread. It should reflect their opinion.

The only difference between what was likely the original title of this thread (missed it myself, so I can only speculate) and "Bose speakers are the best/crap" is that Bose isn't looking over anyone's shoulder with a boatload of lawyers.

#11 of 23 OFFLINE   Mark All

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Posted February 26 2003 - 01:43 PM

I think Goldmember is more likely behind the conspiracy than Dr. Evil. He seemed to have a better taste in music, and he would know who Alan Parsons is. Posted Image

For a good, inexpensive CD that should cost more than it does check out "In Absentia" by Porcupine Tree. I also noticed that "Come Away With Me" went up in price after Blue Note's sales increased a few months ago.

One thing that's confused me is that Tower, Barnes and Noble, and Borders sell most of their CDs at full retail price while Best Buy, Circuit City, and Amazon sell for considerably less. It appears to me like there is no collusion; simply market forces at work. God bless the free enterprise system. However, I can't figure out how Tower stays in business with the prices they charge.

I do like the idea of buying used CDs and LP, Rachael. I can find pretty much anything I'd like to in a good used CD store near me.
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#12 of 23 OFFLINE   Rachael B

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Posted February 26 2003 - 04:34 PM

Michael, I just meant to be as close to defamatory as I dared. I feel and have felt outraged by the industry's business practices for a long time. I get riled up every time I read of additional transgressions. Posted Image

Ron, I'd PM you the title but to be honest, I forgot. If I remember I'll tell you. Thanks for your concern, " ...I've always relied upon the kindness of strangers..." Posted Image Well, not exactly...Posted Image

Mark, like you, I'm doing a partial boycott already.Posted Image

I had hoped somebody would offer a theory or quesstimate about how much these "promotional costs" are adding to the cost of a CD. $2? $5? It's got to be substantial...? IMHO anyways...
Rachael, the big disc cat is in real life Dot Mongur, Champion of the International Pacman Federation. You better be ready to rumble if you play Jr. Pacman with me. This is full contact Pacman and I don't just play the game, I operate it!


#13 of 23 ONLINE   Jesse Skeen

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Posted February 26 2003 - 04:43 PM

(This has been said before, but I'll say it againPosted Image
Best Buy and Circuit City sell CDs and DVD below retail price because they are there primarily to get you into the store to look at and hopefully buy a big-ticket item like a new TV. Stores like Tower don't sell big screen TVs, so they have to make more profit on the CDs since those are their main items.
The REAL problem however is that the record companies just have the retail prices too high!
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#14 of 23 OFFLINE   Vince Maskeeper

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Posted February 27 2003 - 02:58 AM

Payola is illegal.


This isn;t entirely true anymore. Since commercial radio is not required to differentiate between music and commercial paid airtime- music an be presented as a 3 minute commercial and paid for accordingly. The concept of "payola" is an outdated concept- and the idea of spinning records for money is common and legal.

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#15 of 23 OFFLINE   TheLongshot

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Posted February 27 2003 - 05:48 AM

Quote:
However, I can't figure out how Tower stays in business with the prices they charge.


Probably from the sheer volume that they have in the store. There is stuff that I can find in there that I can't find in other B&M stores.

They also do occasionally have deals as well, especially on older titles.

Jason

#16 of 23 OFFLINE   MikeDeVincenzo

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Posted February 27 2003 - 08:00 AM

Vince

Its common, legal, and downright awful. Posted Image

www.wfmu.org

Freeform radio forever Posted Image

#17 of 23 OFFLINE   Paul_Medenwaldt

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Posted February 27 2003 - 09:54 AM

Quote:
Did you notice that Nora Jones's cd went up in price after the grammys.


Actually i just picked up the disc from DeepDiscountCD for $9.89 w/free shipping.

The Best Buy's in our area are selling it for $9.99. Before the Grammy's the disc was between $12.99 and $14.99.

As for the topic itself, yea were getting screwed as consumers by the record companies through your local music store, i've solved that by going to second hand stores and purchasing the majority of my library from Columbia House.

Paul
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#18 of 23 OFFLINE   Rachael B

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Posted February 27 2003 - 02:45 PM

Why is payola legal? It didn't used to be and it might not always be? Law is not static.
Rachael, the big disc cat is in real life Dot Mongur, Champion of the International Pacman Federation. You better be ready to rumble if you play Jr. Pacman with me. This is full contact Pacman and I don't just play the game, I operate it!


#19 of 23 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted February 28 2003 - 09:05 AM

Quote:
defamatory

De*fam"a*to*ry, a. Containing defamation; injurious to reputation; calumnious; slanderous; as, defamatory words; defamatory writings.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
Not a very useful definition, since it doesn't define "defamation".

Quote:
While the defamatory statement can be untrue, it does not have to be. Injurious to reputation would be the way I would take it in this instance.

Incorrect. A statement cannot be defamatory if it is true. That's part of the legal definition of defamation. Source: me, a licensed member of the New York bar.

Quote:
We often read threads here with titles that are clearly the authors opinions. The author is, after all, the person that names the thread. It should reflect their opinion.

Exactly. The purpose of the edit was to make it clear that the statement was offered as the thread originator's opinion. It consisted of adding the words "I believe that" to the beginning of the title.

If you have any further questions about the edited title, send me a private message.

M.
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#20 of 23 OFFLINE   Rachael B

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Posted February 28 2003 - 03:44 PM

People complain alot about high CD prices. I'm suggesting that a million dollars a song times the number of songs that are hits or potential hits (I'm not using the term single since so few singles come out for sale anymore) released for radio in a year adds up to alot and it's monies that deserving artists are denied. We foot the bill, the artist is poorly paid, and the people in the middle reap the spoils. I'm suggesting it's a really big number but I wouldn't trust my own math if I tried to figur it out. I'm suggesting that these outlandish "promotional fees" along with the stupid, lavish contracts given to, mostly older and established, stars are the main problems in the biz.
Rachael, the big disc cat is in real life Dot Mongur, Champion of the International Pacman Federation. You better be ready to rumble if you play Jr. Pacman with me. This is full contact Pacman and I don't just play the game, I operate it!



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