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Paradigm Beef- Advice Needed(long)


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25 replies to this topic

#1 of 26 OFFLINE   Mike Brenton

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Posted February 14 2003 - 11:00 AM

Decided to upgraded from a KSW-12 to the Paradigm PW-2200 in Dec. Well the store I was buying it from did not have one in stock but said they could have one shipped from another store that also carriers Paradigm. Great. The sub arrived and this is where the problems started. When it arrived it was a floor model and to top it off was scratched on top. The store was very apologetic and offered me $50 dollars off the price. I said that this was not enough. They said that they were already giving me a great deal and couldn't go any lower, but no problem I could use this one until they placed their Paradigm order and the new one arrived. Great, No problem.

I realize this has nothing to do with Paradigm (so far) and the store I purchased it from has gone out of their way to accommodate me. Which is great.

Anyway the middle of Jan came and my new sub arrived. Ya Ho. I exchanged the subs and proceeded to break in the new one(let music play for a couple of days and watched 10 or 12 DVD's) at lower volumes. During this time I was noticing something was different. So I ran it just on the test tone and you could clearly hear a problem. It sound like something was vibrating inside and there was popping sounds coming from the driver(volume was at half on the sub) I took it back to the store and let them listen after listening to then floor model and it side buy side at the same levels you could definitely tell the difference. The salesman and Manager both agreed. They said it was the test tone at a sustained level that made it noticable, but said their tech person would look at it and in the mean time I could take the floor model back home.

Recontacted the store after a bit to see what they had found out. They said nothing seemed the matter and once again said it only did at a sustained level over time They have not what any new movies obviously. They would have to ship it to Paradigm. This would cost them money.Hum I guess that's what we will have to do I said.

Talked to the Store again and asked them if they had shipped the sub. They said no because the Paradigm rep was in and listened to the sub. He said Yes it makes the noises but it is within the specs. and maybe it needed more break in time. They are not willing to do anything more than that. But the salesman said he is willing to swap the driver and amp board out of the floor model this will eliminate the scratch or give me the $50 dollar price reduction for taking the scratched one.

I'm a little worried that the noise could be from the cabinet itself.I'm also pissed at Paradigm for their handling of this. The store has been very helpful but I did pay for a new sub.

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

#2 of 26 OFFLINE   Brian Bunge

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Posted February 14 2003 - 11:28 AM

Get them to swap the amp and driver and see if it still makes the noise. If not, then you're good to go.
Brian Bunge
RAD Home Theater

#3 of 26 OFFLINE   Kevin. W

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Posted February 14 2003 - 12:26 PM

Contact Paradigm by phone or e-mail and ask for thier advice. Don't take his word that the rep was in, or ask him for the reps number so you can call. You bought NEW so you should expect to have a NEW working amp.

Kevin

#4 of 26 OFFLINE   Tony Genovese

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Posted February 14 2003 - 12:43 PM

I bought a PW2200 many moons ago. The internal amp had a very pronounced transformer buzz. Paradigm sent me some rubber bushings they said would eliminate the buzz. Upon opening up the sub I noticed the bushings were already there, so I didn't need to install them. A call to Paradigm got the same response as you: the noise was within specs. I sold the sub and have never considered buying another Paradigm product again. To me they put out a shoddy product and don't stand behind it. Another experience with their big 15 incher was similar: untoward noises and shoddy workmanship (this was prior to buying the 2200). Never again.

#5 of 26 OFFLINE   ernie.bin

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Posted February 14 2003 - 01:46 PM

Does no one else have a good dealer?

Mine has always been very good about me being satisfied with what I buy. When one of my denon 1802 buttons was a bit sticky, he just told me to bring it in and he'd have it fixed.

He was also willing to lend me a pair of studio20s for home trial too.

I've only actually spent about $2500 there, so it's not my * bling bling * that makes him as helpful as he is.

I haven't been in the siutation, but I'm pretty sure if I took home a subwoofer that behaved badly I'd be able to just return it.

#6 of 26 OFFLINE   Scott Kriefall

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Posted February 14 2003 - 02:36 PM

Quote:
I'm also pissed at Paradigm for their handling of this. The store has been very helpful but I did pay for a new sub.

So, am I the only person who thinks that the store is to blame here, and not Paradigm? Contact Paradigm and see what they say...

#7 of 26 OFFLINE   Tony Genovese

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Posted February 14 2003 - 02:37 PM

Mine was a special order, I did return it and the 2nd one was just as bad as the first. That's when I knew Paradigm was a company more interested in moving boxes than satisfying the customer. I sold it, took a loss and moved on.

#8 of 26 OFFLINE   wayne p

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Posted February 14 2003 - 02:53 PM

When I bought my 100's a couple of years ago there was a cosmetic flaw. I was shipped a new set with out discussion. My dealer suggested replacement before I could even ask. I believe the dealer has significant support from Paradigm and will respond to their requests. The trick is to find a dealer that will give their customer the same level of support.

Wayne

#9 of 26 OFFLINE   StevenJL

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Posted February 14 2003 - 05:12 PM

Mike,

I am so sorry that you are having such a problem with this Paradigm dealership. No one needs to go through what you are going though. Try to talk w/ the owner/upper management and see if you can get another 'new' one from other store/direct from Paradigm. They should honor your request w/respect. Hope things work our for you.

Steven

#10 of 26 OFFLINE   Robert_Gaither

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Posted February 14 2003 - 06:58 PM

It wouldn't hurt to post a link to this site and explain 24000 people reads this site daily. nothing like screaming wolf and at least being heard (I personally will not give paradigm as a suggestion for a good product if this is how they help their customers, maybe they did go downhill...)

#11 of 26 OFFLINE   PaulT

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Posted February 15 2003 - 02:27 AM

Mike, I'm with Kevin & Scott here:

You have not spoken to anyone at Paradigm and have been told by the dealer 'they' have been talking to the Rep. Maybe, maybe not. Call Paradigm yourself and tell them you are not satisfied and see if you can come up with a solution.

Like any other product there are good and bad dealers. Perhaps they are stringing you a line. Only one way to find out.

Call Paradigm directly at:
905-632-0180
"One of the problems of taking things apart and seeing how they work--supposing you're trying to find out how a cat works--you take that cat apart to see how it works, what you've got in your hands is a non-working cat." -- Douglas Adams

#12 of 26 OFFLINE   Chas_T

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Posted February 15 2003 - 04:11 AM

Mike,

I took the liberty to send the url of this thread to one of my contacts at Paradigm hoping they will contact you about your problem.

First of all, I am not involved with the company nor am I high on the food chain as I am just an end user. The past few years I've been able to develop a rapport with this person and I am hoping he can help you out here.

I would agree with Paul, Kevin and Scott about contacting Paradigm directly. The squeaky wheel gets greased and in this case, if you are not happy with your product, your voice needs to expressed.

In the States, we have the Better Business Bureau. I don't know what types of consumer protection services are in Canada. However, I would NOT let it go. My .02 and I wish you luck.

Charles

#13 of 26 OFFLINE   Mike Brenton

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Posted February 16 2003 - 04:35 AM

Thanks everyone for their advice so far. I "E" mailed paradigm and now waiting to see if they respond. I would just like to say that the sub that works does everything and more that I wanted. The PW-2200 is a great sub but like everything thats made these days there is some that are flawed right from the start. I would hope that Paradigm realizes this, and that this is just a fact of mass production.

At the same time I bought the sub I got my son a set their Esprit's. When we unpacked them one had the inserts for the carpet spikes and the other did not. We took the one back and exchanged it no problem. But this just shows things are missed in the inspection process.

Mike B

#14 of 26 OFFLINE   Mike Brenton

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Posted February 18 2003 - 10:41 AM

Talked to the Paradigm rep today. He confirmed that he had been in the dealer and listened to my sub. After a discussion about the problem he said that he has instructed the store to send the amp & driver back to be tested. He admits there is some sort of problem but he is not a tech. He also said everything will be worked out to my satisfaction. I hope this is true.

Mike B

#15 of 26 OFFLINE   Tony Genovese

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Posted February 18 2003 - 01:18 PM

Good luck. I'll be interested to hear how they resolve it to your satisfaction. Mass production should lead to some sort of consistency. I think Paradigm's problem is lack of quality control, which is not a given with mass prodution.

#16 of 26 OFFLINE   wayne p

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Posted February 18 2003 - 02:27 PM

Considering the quantity of product sold by Paradigm and the very few problems discussed on this and other popular forums, I would argue their quality control is pretty good.

#17 of 26 OFFLINE   Tony Genovese

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Posted February 18 2003 - 02:45 PM

Quote:
Considering the quantity of product sold by Paradigm and the very few problems discussed on this and other popular forums, I would argue their quality control is pretty good.


Perhaps. It just hasn't been my experience nor apparently has it been Mike Brenton's, based on his posts.

#18 of 26 OFFLINE   Robert_Gaither

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Posted February 18 2003 - 07:27 PM

I don't know, I've been reading about problems with their subs at various forums and other review sites (of course it might be the same people posting at all the other forums, but if it's not...) and it seems paradigm is somewhat not coming to the customers rescue unless a call is placed directly to them (makes you wonder why they authorize some dealers).

#19 of 26 OFFLINE   Sanjay Gupta

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Posted February 23 2003 - 08:27 PM

Since this thread has become somewhat of a discussion on the Customer Service of Paradigm, I wish to mention my personal experience regarding the same.

I live in India and on one of my trips to the US I bought a Paradigm Reference Studio CC Center Channel Speaker. After using them for around a yr or so I noticed that the tweeter had burnt out. Probably not because of any manufacturing defects but rather misuse on my part, more specifically due to overdriving by a low power amp. Since there are no dealers of Paradigm in India I contacted the dealer in the US I had purchased the speaker from, who said that I would have to get the speaker to the US and to his store for him to have it fixed regardless of whether it was done under the warranty coverage or I paid for it. Since that seemed like a lot of trouble specially considering that I would have to deal with the Customs in India upon the speakers return (not a very pleasant task). I then emailed Paradigm from their contact info on their site, explaining my situation to them. Within a couple of days I received a reply stating that since Paradigm does not have a dealer in India they would gladly send me a replacement tweeter under warranty coverage and all I had to do was send them a copy of my purchase receipt. Since I was out of town on business when I got their email I replied to thewm that I would send them the receipt once I got back home. But I never actually got around to doing it but lo and behold a couple of weeks later there was a package delivered to me with a brand new tweeter which solved my problem.

As I see it, Paradigm was under no obligation to do what they did for several reasons. First of all the tweeter had gotten damaged by my own mistake rather than any manufacturing fault of Paradigm. Secondly they had no obligation to fulfill my warranty outside the US. Thirdly I never even sent them my purchase receipt. Keeping all these things in mind I would say that Paradigm customer service is less than no one.

Sanjay
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#20 of 26 OFFLINE   wayne p

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Posted February 24 2003 - 12:49 PM

I note that once Sanjay bypassed the dealer and went direct to Paradigm his problem was solved to his satisfaction. It is unfortunate he dealt with a dealer that was not helpful, but fortunate he purchased from a company that stands behind their product.

A good dealer is worth paying a little premium for.

Wayne





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