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DTS Laserdiscs.......


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231 replies to this topic

#1 of 232 Declan

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Posted February 11 2003 - 09:22 AM

Today was the first time i ever heard a DTS LD ( cheers GB ) and i have to say that i was blown away by it. The disc in question was Apollo 13, and what struck me was not the aggressive sequences (such as the lift off) but the quieter moments and the musical score.

I always was one of those guys that had the bass up loud, the speakers melting from the extreme pressure that was put on them from listening to such DVD's as Fast And the Furious (DTS track) and LD's such as Private Ryan. But it was the clarity that came through which struck me the most.

I would bet money on the DTS LD having better sound than the DTS DVD of Apollo 13 because of the higher amount of space afforded to the DTS mix on the LD. It really was an eye opener, the only real downer or complaint I would have with this disc is that it now means that i'll have to upgrade my speakers and get better speaker cable to try and squeeze every inch of sound out from Apollo 13 in DTS. Brilliant!!!! never was my sig at the bottom of my posts more appropiate............. well on 2nd thoughtPosted Image

Ohh, have to get myself Jurassic Park DTS ld now.
"So, Jeff Beck pops his head 'round the door, and mentions there's a little sweets shop on the edge of town. So - we go. And - it's closed"

#2 of 232 JeremySt

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Posted February 11 2003 - 09:55 AM

I would bet money on the DTS LD having better sound than the DTS DVD of Apollo 13 because of the higher amount of space afforded to the DTS mix on the LD.


Then you would loose money.Posted Image The space does not benefit DTS on LD. DTS on LD is applied the same way on DVD. Alhough, some DVD use half rate DTS instead of full rate. LDs usually used full rate, but In the example you site, APOLLO 13, both the LD and DVD use the same DTS track. In fact many fans claim the sound on the DVD to be superior to the LD.

Half rate DVDs did not appear until after LD had passed away (or very near the same time). A Saving Private Ryan or Jurassic park DTS LD would have used full rate DTS, while the DVD used half rate. So in theat case, the LD may have won out.

DTS on LD is phenomonal, but I dont think we can assume that DTS on DVD cannot surpass it. The skill of people mixing these tracks is getting better all the time. I have yet to hear a DTS LD that can surpass the half rate DTS of titles like U-571 or Gladiator.

#3 of 232 greg_t

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Posted February 11 2003 - 11:51 AM

If I remember correctly, DTS LD were only in the 1400KbPS range, whereas the first DTS Dvd's were full bitrate 1500. I agree with you on the Apollo 13 DTS LD. I haven't heard either of the dvd's, but the DTS laser is really excellent. The liftoff sequence is still demo material, and the music is just done great, with a great spacial quality to the sound. I personally didn't find the DTS LD any better than the DTS DVD, with the exception that the on the LD the surrounds are 3db too high. A few other great DTS LD are Casper, Schindlers List, and Titanic.

#4 of 232 Adam Barratt

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Posted February 11 2003 - 04:00 PM

Quite correct, both Declan and Jeremy would lose money. Posted Image

'Full' bit-rate DTS on DVD runs at 1509kbps 48kHz, while on LaserDisc DTS always ran at 1235kbps 44.1kHz.

Adam

#5 of 232 Philip Hamm

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Posted February 12 2003 - 12:27 AM

It's in the subtleties that DTS really shines, especially on LaserDisc.

Schindler's List is downright chilling on DTS LD.
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#6 of 232 Carl Mulder

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Posted February 12 2003 - 12:45 AM

I remeber the days of Jurassic park on laser disc, now my experience of this disc will probably never be matched.
The sound is so broad and full.
Same with jurassic park 2 when the two T-rex's attack at night, open, broad, full, and when they fall down the ridge with the glass breaking, is DTS FULL BIT-RATE at it's best.
I am sick of low bit-rate dvds, the dvd community always gets screwed because it's so commercial now.
I want FULL BIT-RATE DTS BACK ON DVD.
Saving private ryan sounds amazing but when I buy a DTS only DVD I want know dolby digital, the frigging dolby version is on the disc available. Even so, I beleive that there is space for the full DTS but they companays are so lazy or just ignorant to the fact that we want higher quality.
Star wars 2, the average bit-rate is 5 mbps, with no extras on disc 1, just the movie, there telling me they can't get 1509kbps to the disc, THATS GARBAGE! LUCAS! GARBAGE!
Titanic and apollo 13 sound amazing on the DTS DEMO DISC, Titanic sounds really broad, and like mentioned earlyier the musical score sounds of much higher quality than experienced before.
We need to start a petition because DVD could sound better than laser disc, this is 2003 and I still have low DTS BIT-RATES. I am extremely mad about this, I hope you all agree with me.

FROM A PERSON WHO KNOWS WHAT DTS SHOULD SOUND LIKE!

CARL.

#7 of 232 Rachael B

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Posted February 12 2003 - 04:46 AM

DTS made all those LD's and those early full-rate DVD's themselves. Then, they let the studios get DTS encoders and since then it's just been the half-rate because that's what the studios want to do. Well, a few full-rate discs have trickled out in Japan (and maybe elsewhere?), I have a couple of those.
Rachael, the big disc cat is in real life Dot Mongur, Champion of the International Pacman Federation. You better be ready to rumble if you play Jr. Pacman with me. This is full contact Pacman and I don't just play the game, I operate it!


#8 of 232 JeremySt

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Posted February 12 2003 - 07:18 AM

Jeremy would lose money


Wait! I didnt bet moneyPosted Image

#9 of 232 Rob Gillespie

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Posted February 12 2003 - 08:16 AM

Quote:
In the example you site, APOLLO 13, both the LD and DVD use the same DTS track. In fact many fans claim the sound on the DVD to be superior to the LD.

Not this one.
No longer here.

#10 of 232 Declan

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Posted February 12 2003 - 08:30 AM

Damn right, just had another blast of the lift off an hour ago.

Rob do you have Jurassic park on DTS LD?
How does it compare to every other DVD/LD version of it?
"So, Jeff Beck pops his head 'round the door, and mentions there's a little sweets shop on the edge of town. So - we go. And - it's closed"

#11 of 232 Jacinto

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Posted February 12 2003 - 08:58 AM

Declan,

I know I'm not Rob, but I'll throw my two cents in anyway. That damn Jurassic Park DTS LD cost me $2500! How you ask? The opening note is so deep and so powerful that it was the first thing to ever bottom out my mains. I stopped the movie right there and went out to buy an 18" Velodyne the next day and started again. This LD sounds simply amazing. Not only are the FX incredible, but I love JW's score for this movie, and the music sounds breathtaking.

The other DTS LD's I'd list as mindblowing (for sound) are the Shadow, the Rock, Crimson Tide (really impressive), and Titanic. I've got several others, but those are really the standouts for me.
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#12 of 232 Declan

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Posted February 12 2003 - 09:35 AM

i'm actually in the middle of the shadow LD now. Although she who must be obeyed wanted in to watch the TV so I got relegated to the PC for a look on the web and a spot of GTA3.

Yea the sound on the Shadow is great, very powerful as well. Whats most surprising is that it's just the regular pro-logic version.

Have the DD5.1 LD edtions of the rock, crimson tide and Titanic. They all sound great, especially CT in the fire in the galley scene.......very powerful.
"So, Jeff Beck pops his head 'round the door, and mentions there's a little sweets shop on the edge of town. So - we go. And - it's closed"

#13 of 232 Armand G

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Posted February 12 2003 - 10:39 AM

I have about 35 Dts laserdiscs or so. There are some super duper mixes on them which have yet to be surpassed by any dvd whatsoever like Casper, Stargate (also ordered the UE on dvd to compare), Lost In Space, Dark City, Broken Arrow etc. Especially Casper is unsurpassed as it comes to being the most neutral mix ever produced.

The same apllies in 99% of the AC-3 titles on ld which are better than there dvd counterparts.

I am still looking if I can get my hands on new or second hand Dts ld's. Just bought Toy Story. Can't waite to give it a spin. Now even more since I am tweaking my Pioneer laserdisc player.

The Dts bitrate on ld's is indeed lower than dvd, but don't let that fool you. They still sound better.

I even have some extra new sealed dts ld's.
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#14 of 232 Dan Hitchman

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Posted February 12 2003 - 11:40 AM

The mixes on most DVDs nowadays are dumbed down. The clean up of bad edits, pops, clicks, etc. is not the only thing the video department does (which should be the only thing done). They also think that dynamic range and headroom need to be lessened for those people with low quality gear.

DTS laserdiscs were (mostly) spectacular because care was taken not only with the encoding, but with the PCM master used.

Casper was one of the best... Jurassic Park too. Absolutely jaw dropping (most DVDs today cannot hold a candle to them). Why did I ever sell them??!!

Dan

P.S. Apollo 13 on DTS LD was superior to the DTS DVD.

#15 of 232 Christopher a

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Posted February 12 2003 - 12:25 PM

Quote:
I have yet to hear a DTS LD that can surpass the half rate DTS of titles like U-571 or Gladiator.


This is unfair since Gladiator and U-571 were never made into dts Laserdisc's. I can still have a list a mile long even with the existing Laser's. Let's start with JPII: Lost World....

Quote:
The skill of people mixing these tracks is getting better all the time.


Let's hope they continue to get better. Because Laserdisc, which is considered "ancient" and DVHS, which is considered negligable by most of the HT population, can both blow away dvd sound...dts or dd.

#16 of 232 Declan

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Posted February 12 2003 - 12:36 PM

Armand:
Quote:
I even have some extra new sealed dts ld's



you mean you have some sparePosted Image Posted Image
"So, Jeff Beck pops his head 'round the door, and mentions there's a little sweets shop on the edge of town. So - we go. And - it's closed"

#17 of 232 JeremySt

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Posted February 12 2003 - 01:17 PM

All this talk gets me excited about my LDs again. I have been trying to track down DTS LDs of RONIN and DARK CITY. Im sure these two would blow away their Dolby Digital DVD counterparts.

Ive heard Jurrassic Park, and a few others, but non that made me want to ditch my DVDs. RIght now, the only DTS Ld I own is VERTIGO.

#18 of 232 Rachael B

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Posted February 12 2003 - 02:01 PM

The U-571 AC-3 LD from Nippon sounds about on par with the DVD played in DTS. It's a well recorded movie and it sounds good any way you encode it. JURASSIC PARK is real well recorded too. You could certainly argue that the Pro-Logic mix sounds better than the DTS. The AC-3 mix for JP could be argued for too. I've always thought that the big bad sound effects were pretty much a wash between DTS and AC-3.

Where I've noticed DTS to frequently have a advantage was with little effects. Example, on the FLUBBER DTS LD, in the labratory, when the flubber is bubbling and gurgaling it's very detailed in the surround channels. It sounds like it's really in the room. On the AC-3 DVD, you can barely hear it and it doesn't sound real.

My conclusion, when DTS meticulously encoded LD's they consistently did superb work. When AC-3 gets that kind of attention it can sound good too. STIR WARZ PHANTOM MENACE is a good example. Well-recorded movies sound good in any format. SWPM is dynamite in PL too, IMO. Conclusion, 1/2 rate DTS can sound good but it ain't the real thing. My favourite DTS LD's are AUSTIN POWERS, CON AIR, and THE JACKAL with it's bang-bangs.
Rachael, the big disc cat is in real life Dot Mongur, Champion of the International Pacman Federation. You better be ready to rumble if you play Jr. Pacman with me. This is full contact Pacman and I don't just play the game, I operate it!


#19 of 232 DeanWalsh

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Posted February 12 2003 - 03:14 PM

Yes DTS LD's have a certain fullness and warmth that just can't be matched on DVD... I regret not snapping them all up when they were freely available. I was lucky enough to get about 10 discs at a 2nd hand store about 6 months ago.

#20 of 232 Tim Glover

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Posted February 12 2003 - 03:49 PM

Some other great dts lasers are:

The Long Kiss Goodnight
True Lies
Goldeneye...maybe the best I've heard.

I tend to discount the Jurassic Park dts lasers (lost world) because they were over cooked by about 3db...


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