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Weekend of Nov18th to be busy...


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#1 of 20 OFFLINE   BrianB

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Posted September 21 2001 - 07:05 AM

Glad I'm not working in a EB or Gamestop on the weekend of the 15th to 18th November.

Why? Xbox just got delayed a week till the 15th of November. It's official, expect it on all the game sites shortly.

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high resolution ipod featuring dlp hd programming is the best, almost as good as playstation 2 with wega windows media on a super cd! ps2 and tivo do dolby tv with broadband hdtv!

#2 of 20 OFFLINE   Joel Mack

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Posted September 21 2001 - 07:19 AM

Kind of amusing, isn't it? Now XBox and GCN are 3 days apart, again...

Here's a link confirming it:

http://cnnfn.cnn.com...logy/microsoft/

Posted Image

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#3 of 20 OFFLINE   Morgan Jolley

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Posted September 21 2001 - 07:29 AM

MS is killing themselves. First theres no progressive scan, now its pushed back. Its probably to get more units available for launch, which is good, but its pushed closer to the GCN, which is bad.

#4 of 20 OFFLINE   Kelley_B

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Posted September 21 2001 - 07:53 AM

I still know which one I will be picking up that weekend. But still, in all reality Sony should have done this also last year with the PS2.

#5 of 20 OFFLINE   Dan B

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Posted September 21 2001 - 08:04 AM

It's also a bit disconcerting that they (MS) are refusing to give out launch numbers now, too.

On the plus side for Xbox, I heard the other day that the IGN editors who got to play the most recent version of Halo last week went out and placed their preorders for Xbox immediately afterwards. (the ones who hadn't already) Even Matt C. of IGN Cube! The game is said to be absolutely stellar.

P.S. Kelley, which one is it that you are buying at launch?


-Dan

[Edited last by Dan B on September 21, 2001 at 03:10 PM]

#6 of 20 OFFLINE   John Berggren

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Posted September 21 2001 - 08:04 AM

One more reason I want to preorder Gamecube. I don't want to wait in monstrous lines and not get one.

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#7 of 20 OFFLINE   BrianB

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Posted September 21 2001 - 08:24 AM

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Even Matt C. of IGN Cube!

So? All of the IGN guys bought PS2s back at its launch - even the Nintendo guys.

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high resolution ipod featuring dlp hd programming is the best, almost as good as playstation 2 with wega windows media on a super cd! ps2 and tivo do dolby tv with broadband hdtv!

#8 of 20 OFFLINE   Dan B

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Posted September 21 2001 - 08:45 AM

Brian, my point was that Peer went out of his way to post on the IGN Boards how we was convinced the Xbox is a contender after playing the recent version of Halo. These guys were not at all impressed previously with any of the Xbox games, so it's good to hear that.

-Dan

#9 of 20 OFFLINE   BrianB

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Posted September 21 2001 - 08:50 AM

Sorry, Dan, just misunderstood your point.

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high resolution ipod featuring dlp hd programming is the best, almost as good as playstation 2 with wega windows media on a super cd! ps2 and tivo do dolby tv with broadband hdtv!

#10 of 20 OFFLINE   Dan B

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Posted September 21 2001 - 08:58 AM

No problem, Brian. Posted Image The IGN editors are not required to own all the systems, and Peer and Matt had no intention of getting an Xbox until Halo changed their minds. Here are Peer's posts at the IGN Boards:
Quote:
Prior to seeing the latest build of Halo, my plans for X-Mas 2001 were set: buy MGS2, buy Ico, buy all the big PS2 games, plus a GameCube, Wave Race, Luigi, Pikmin, Star Wars, and of course Smash Bros.

Damn you, Microsoft!

I was going to wait and see how some of the third-party Xbox software would turn out (after seeing MS's lackluster E3 showing) -- but Halo has changed my mind. That game is NICE. The first level has got to be one of the most intense experiences in any first-person shooter yet. I also like Oddworld a lot. Even though it's not the visual tour-de-force I expected, the puzzles are VERY clever and the whole mood of the game makes you crack up repeatedly while you're playing it.

So to sum it all up, my doubts that Xbox could compete with PS2 and GCN this X-Mas are put to rest. I preordered the damn box (EXPENSIVE!) and I'll be there on launch day to pick it up.
SNIP
I was eventually going to get an Xbox (originally planning on January, which is a slow time for games), but E3 left such a sour impression on me that I wasn't going to get it at launch. Well, Halo changed my mind (and to a certain extent, Oddworld, too).

I preordered the bundle with Halo, Munch and Gotham -- but I may change the latter since I wasn't that big of a fan of MSR. Although I LOVE GT, GT2, GT3 A-Spec, Test Drive Le Mans (DC version) and other realistic racers, MSR just seemed... well, boring. I'm hoping that Gotham isn't just MSR with a new paintjob, otherwise I'll probably get DOA3 or Tony Hawk 2X instead.

And yeah, I agree that all editors should have all three systems -- in an ideal world. In reality, the editors are so busy trying to play all the games for the systems they cover that even if they buy another system, they usually don't get the chance to REALLY experience it. Take the PS2 guys, for example. Dave Z actually stays up really late into the night to play all the PS2 software he reviews and previews. Well, the Cube guys let him take home a GameCube for the past days, so I'm sure he's not getting ANY sleep now.

Anyway, Xbox looks cool now in my book. I'm especially excited about the whole playlist feature. Anyone who's played games with annoying soundtracks (like Crazy Taxi or MSR) will agree that it adds a lot.

Still not too enthusiastic about the controller, though. It's one of those "you'll get used to it" things.

Peer


#11 of 20 OFFLINE   Kelley_B

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Posted September 21 2001 - 09:57 AM

Dan B

My current plan is to get an Xbox for my birthday in Feb. as 2 days after that THE GAME I WANT comes out and that is Jet Grind Radio Future.

#12 of 20 OFFLINE   Morgan Jolley

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Posted September 21 2001 - 02:25 PM

Actually, the same thing that happened for the X-Box (people preordering it because they played some games for it) has happened to people who have played Rogue Leader for GameCube. People also say Pikmin is a great game, and Luigi's Mansion is supposed to be pretty addictive (for the first few hours). That reviewer also didn't say that he cancelled his GameCube preorder (if he had one), so its not like the XB is now his favorite console, it just proved itself as being worth it (in his eyes).

I'm holding out on the X-Box so I can get games cheaper and all at once. I would rather get an X-Box at Christmas and have a week off to play it along with a bunch of great games than get it at launch with only a few good games and no free time to play it. I'm not saying I think it will suck or anything, but I'm holding out.

I want a GCN as soon as possible because I don't need to make room for it (cuz its tiny) and Rogue Leader.

#13 of 20 OFFLINE   David_LM

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Posted September 21 2001 - 04:39 PM

Quote:
Morgan: MS is killing themselves.
Quote:
I was going to wait and see how some of the third-party Xbox software would turn out (after seeing MS's lackluster E3 showing) -- but Halo has changed my mind. That game is NICE. The first level has got to be one of the most intense experiences in any first-person shooter yet. I also like Oddworld a lot … the puzzles are VERY clever and the whole mood of the game makes you crack up repeatedly while you're playing it.

So to sum it all up, my doubts that Xbox could compete with PS2 and GCN this X-Mas are put to rest.

I was eventually going to get an Xbox, but E3 left such a sour impression on me that I wasn't going to get it at launch. Well, Halo changed my mind (and to a certain extent, Oddworld, too).

Anyway, Xbox looks cool now in my book.
Uh, Morgan, MS is not killing itself, it will be killing the competition within 18 months. As I said right after the E3, the reviews regarding the XBox’s appearance at E3 meant absolutely nothing. MS simply wasn’t in a position or ready to put its best foot (product) forward at that time. But what was clear based on the hardware specifications and announced games/developers was the potential of the XBox to be the best game console. MS and game developers just needed the extra time between E3 and launch to complete and fine tune the final product. It appears that time was well spent.

Quote:
First there’s no progressive scan, now its pushed back. Its probably to get more units available for launch, which is good, but its pushed closer to the GCN, which is bad.
Of course, you put a positive spin on the Cube’s delay and are now putting a negative spin on the XBox delay. Hmm. I do not think this hurts the XBox one bit, as they will sell every console they can produce prior to Christmas. In addition, the blitz and frenzy over the XBox launch may now overshadow the Cube launch since they are so close now.


#14 of 20 OFFLINE   Matt Birchall

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Posted September 21 2001 - 04:59 PM

All I know is: My birthday's the 14th (cha-ching), and I get paid on the 16th (cha-ching, cha-ching), so I'll be all set for whatever system(s) and games I decide to get that week. Definitely a Cube and Star Wars and maybe an XBox and Halo--I'm sitting right on the middle of the fence on the Box, and, boy, is it painful. . . Posted Image I'll probably wind up getting an XBox sooner or later, I just have to figure out when exactly.

-mwb-

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#15 of 20 OFFLINE   Dean Cooper

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Posted September 21 2001 - 05:44 PM

Sigh, well looks like I'll have to change my vacation time. Mildly frustrating but I can live another 7 days without Xbox. Who wants to setup the pool on when Nintendo's next launch date will be? just kidding...

On a positive note, this news will mean that Xbox will have a lot more games for launch. Might be what they need to really steal Nintendo's thunder, all of the people that just bought a Xbox will still be in the brand new frenzy excitement pushing fence sitters towards them. Sure will be an expensive and exciting weekend.

Dean

#16 of 20 OFFLINE   Adam Nixon

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Posted September 21 2001 - 05:48 PM

David, I don't know how you can put any kind positive spin on a critical delay for the X-box, especially if MS has a hardware shortage on top of it. Microsoft got a tremendous gift from Nintendo when they pushed their launch date back to the 18th. Unfortunately, now they're in a position where they'll be going head to head with Nintendo again. By this time in November, BOTH companies are going to have advertising blitzes that will put any other console introduction to shame. I felt the X-box had a great opportunity showing up two weeks prior to Nintendo, now the difference is negligable.

Microsoft, being the upstart in this situation, needs every single "break" that a manufacturer can get with a new product launch. In addition, they're having to tackle the transition of becoming a hardware manufacturer where release dates are MUCH more important. They can't get away with the perpetual delays that plague Windows releases.

Despite all of this, my guess is that both launches will cancel each other out -- there won't be a clear winner upon launch, the real battleground will be fought between all three consoles for Christmas, 2002. By then, we'll know if Sony's lead was too large, Nintendo's 1st party developers lived up to their reputation, or if Microsoft's software truly innovated and took advantage of their amazing hardware.

#17 of 20 OFFLINE   Joseph S

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Posted September 21 2001 - 06:00 PM

Quote:
Uh, Morgan, MS is not killing itself, it will be killing the competition within 18 months.

Maybe, but most likely not. It won't correlate either way as to whether it's a better product or value. I do know that their own MacBU is killing itself laughing at how much better their stuff is than anything the other various departments can put out. I also find it amusing that they've turned to Bungie for the feature X Box title.

Well, as you may have guessed I'm adding a gamecube that week to my collection as I've already got the original "X" box. Posted Image

#18 of 20 OFFLINE   David_LM

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Posted September 22 2001 - 03:27 AM

Quote:
David, I don't know how you can put any kind positive spin on a critical delay for the X-box, especially if MS has a hardware shortage on top of it.
Adam, go back and read my post and you will see I did not put a positive spin on this. Besides, your statement contradicts itself. I simply stated the delay is no big deal because MS will not be limited by demand, it will be limited by the amount of units it can produce. You state there may be a shortage of units produced, so why would a week delay matter? Why does it matter if 600,000 (estimate) units are sold in 5 weeks or 6 weeks? If there is a shortage, a week delay would make alot of sense.

Quote:
Microsoft got a tremendous gift from Nintendo when they pushed their launch date back to the 18th. Unfortunately, now they're in a position where they'll be going head to head with Nintendo again.
So we are back to square one. MS is in this for the long run and their main target will be the PS2. They probably consider the Cube the low end of the market and have targeted its console at the high end along with the PS2. This delay talk is really silly. I could turn it around and say that if this XBox delay was inevitable due to manufacturing delays, then by Nintendo delaying its launch earlier was a huge gift to MS by allowing it the latitude to delay its launch also.

Quote:
Microsoft, being the upstart in this situation, needs every single "break" that a manufacturer can get with a new product launch.
Since when does MS need every single break to succeed. The fact that they are the new kid on the block has generated a great deal of excitement in the industry and will bring alot of new players into the market.

Quote:
there won't be a clear winner upon launch, the real battleground will be fought between all three consoles for Christmas, 2002.
I have said all along that PS2, Cube, XBox will finish in that order for this Christmas season due to production issues. The real battle will be in the year 2002 and 2003. Once game development catches up with the power potential of the XBox, positive reviews and knowledge of the product becomes commonplace, and DVD continues to go mainstream, it will go around the Cube in sales by Christmas 2002. When the XBox approaches the sales of PS2 in 2003, it will be declared a monumental success.

#19 of 20 OFFLINE   Morgan Jolley

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Posted September 22 2001 - 05:19 AM

MS isn't killing itself, its just making some poor decisions. Not including progressive scan in the DVD abilities makes it around the same as the PS2's DVD abilities, only you don't have to purchase the PS2 ones (buy the remote and you get some extra features). MS said that they didn't include the DVD options because it wants to be a gaming console and not a multimedia console, yet they have the DVD features and use them as a selling point. GameStock and E3 didn't have very good showings at all for MS, especially compared to the PS2 and GCN showings at E3. MS has yet to have a show where they show something so mindblowing that anything else Nintendo or Sony has done at the same show looked bad. DoA3 looks great, but nothing else on the X-Box promises to take advantage of the power (yet).

The XB launch being pushed back is good because they get more units. That is the only positive thing about it.

You could say that the delays are meaningless. So then what do you compare the two consoles on? The games. What does MS have? Not Resident Evil 0-4 and CV, not Mario, not Zelda, not Final Fantasy VII-X, not Tekken, not Metal Gear Solid 2, not Devil May Cry, not Soul Reaver 2, not ICO, not a whole lot of games. All the games they have are new games (like Halo, its not part of a series) or are from other series' that started on other consoles (like Munch and Dead or Alive). Nintendo and Sony can beat MS with the list of games they have alone. I know that a lot of games I listed aren't coming out for a long time, but the X-Box is supposed to be dominating the PS2 and GCN in 18 months, which is when Mario, Zelda, and a whole lot of other game will already be out. Sorry, but nothing on the X-Box can compare to some of the titles that Sony and Nintendo already have.

I could see MS getting great sales and staying in the console business for another console after the X-Box, but I highly doubt they will run circles around Nintendo and Sony. Many more people want to get GameCubes than X-Boxes already. MS is not showing anything so killer that you must have the XB, whereas Nintendo doesn't even need to for the pure fact that they are Nintendo. Sony has an established market that keeps growing, so MS won't be competition for them for a long time. Also, there are three gaming markets: North America, Europe, and Japan. The GameCube is already out in Japan (for over a week) and the X-Box doesn't come out until next year in Japan. If the XB fails in Japan, it will turn into another Dreamcast (which was mainly a success only in America).

I will get an X-Box eventually, but from what MS has shown me, there is no reason why I should.

#20 of 20 OFFLINE   Adam Nixon

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Posted September 22 2001 - 06:01 AM

David, I didn't think I completely contradicted myself, but it was a poorly worded sentence on my part. You're partially right -- if there is a shortage in hardware a delay could help Microsoft, but I can't possibly imagine they're happy about it. If there is a huge demand and not enought consoles are available, then that money will go to Nintendo and Sony. I still maintain my stance that every break MS can get will further the X-box's chances.

As for the X-box taking over 1st from the PS2, I don't see that ever happening. 10 millions in homes BEFORE a price cut and a 2nd Christmas season is an ENORMOUS lead. I don't think anyone will catch them, and I wouldn't be surprised if PS2's outsold both Nintendo and Microsoft combined this Christmas. There is SOME excitement at a powerful American console hitting the marketplace, but that hasn't carried over to all of the major console developers just yet; take a look at Konami, EA and Namco's scaled back support for some examples. Those companies aren't treating the X-box as anything special, for now. That could all change in a year...

MS's wildcard is its own stable of developers, as they've made FAR more strides than Sony ever has in establishing 1st-party presence. I actually believe their strategy is best -- they're taking the idea of 1st-party dominance from Nintendo and mixing it with wide 3rd-party support like Sony. The early previews for Halo have been overwhelmingly positive, which certainly has piqued my interest. If that turns out to be a Goldeneye killer, than my bank account is certainly going to be a lot smaller come November.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've gotten the distinct impression that this is only the beginning for Microsoft in the console wars. I thought I read somewhere that MS is essentially hoping for a "foot in the door" this time, and will hope to build on it for the future. In doing so, they will learn enough so that during the next generation they could pull ahead of the pack -- they're in it for the long haul, even if this time around it isn't a market phenomenon.



[Edited last by Adam Nixon on September 22, 2001 at 01:05 PM]


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