Hey Austin Texas Buddies? Can anyone help me out? (1 Viewer)

Well I finally made some final decisions on my theater system and equipment and now I need a big favor since I am not the knowledgeable about it and that’s doing an SPL test (correct). Can any of you guys here willing to help me out so I can get the best sound and setting calibrated properly? Also my RPTV might be off a little and I do not know anything about red push or how to set it. The instruction manual sucks. But if any of you guys can help me that would be great! Let me know?

Thanks

The 1st 2 pics is my current theater setup.

Take a look:

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/hifi_home...t+Hifi&.view=t

Mike, for your Mitsu RPTV red push issue, do a forum search in the display area - this forum, AVScience and Hometheaterspot forums - tons of info available.
Speakers: First, I'd build a shelf with a vertical brace or two on the back, extending downward to rest on the back of the TV (maybe rubber tips on the bottom of the braces), so you can place your center channel on top of the RPTV. You won't be happy with the center channel speaker to the side of the TV. White van speakers???? Are you one of those guys? "Studio Monitors"...mmm-mmm...where can I get some?!
I've got an analog RS SPL meter and an Exel file fill-in-the-blank form with extrapolated/extended frequency intervals you could use also.

Hank,


The Yamaha speakers is my setup as of now. Thats with the 2 towers on each side of the RPTV in the pics at that link . The pic you are talking about is the Warlf Zaldek speakers I tested, that center is huge and was way heavy and did not trust it to be on top of my RPTV :frowning: .

Hahaha about them white van speakers,, yea I got suckerd about 4 years ago. I was on my way to Best Buy to buy an car cd player for my wife old honda accord and as I got out of her car a guy stopped behind me and showd me these speakers that said they were retail price of 1200.00 or some crap like that. I was not interested. Then all BS to the side and about 10 minutes wasted of my time. I decided to try to hear them at least so I had at the time a littl 100x2 Pionner car amp and lucky I was the speaker wires were long enough to come out of the truck so I plug the pair of White van speakers and they did not sound that bad. So I spent the money that I was suppose to buy my wife car cd player with on these speakers LMAO.
But there really not bad at all. In all honestly the 2 12" 3-ways rocked in stereo mode, nice treble. But oh about the price..I remeber getting them for 180.00 for the3 pair and at that time I don't even think best buy had floor speakers for less then 200.00 for a pair and espically 12" 3-ways
:frowning: .

Mike,

In order to adjust the red push you will need to use the service menu, which of course your owner's manual will not tell you how to access. I used to know the code, but I haven't messed with a Mits in a long time. As Hank said though, it should be easy to find doing a keyword search of (Mitsubishi Service Menu Code) on any of the popular RPTV/calibration forums.

I should caution you though that unless you have a color analyzer, and/or have a lot of experience calibrating RPTVs, I would not jump into the service menu and start messing with the RGB push & drives. While it may look like you have a red push problem, it may in fact be a green drive issue. The only way to be sure is by measuring the color temp and analyzing each color output. Worst case scenario, always remember to write down the current settings, so that you can always get back to where you started.

Good luck, those Mits are not fun to calibrate... :frowning: I know of several ISFers who charge more for Mits sets because of their calibration issues. That said, the effort is almost always worth it for the improved PQ. While you are in there, you may also want to evaluate your convergence. In my experience Mits sets can only hold their convergence for about a year, so if its been that long since it was last calibrated or if its a new set, more than likely it could benefit from a little adjusting.

"...so I plug the pair of White van speakers and they did not sound that bad."

Good Grief! You're wife shoulda smacked you upside da head.

Hank,

She did slap me on the top but close to the back of the head,,, but still kinda hurt. She was pissed b/c she still had a honda tape deck and I had a set of 12"s that I really did not need. DOH!!


Nils,

My RPTV is a Samsung. By looking at the manual its not called red push, but it called Red Convergence and it can be set w/o getting into an service menu from my understanding, but maybe this Red Convergence is not the same as red push? :frowning:

Red push and convergence are two very different issues. If your problem is convergence, you can mostly fix that via the standard menus without entering the service menus. Just enter the convergence section of your menu and use the arrow keys on your remote to adjust the crosshairs, boxes, dots, or whatever Samsung uses until everything lines up. That should get you started.

My mistake, I read Hank's response and he mentioned that you had a mitsu.

The best way to determine whether your problem is with convergence or with your gamma settings is to run those specific test patterns found on VE or AVIA. I have both if you would like to borrow one. If it is a convergence issue and your set allows for convergence calibration without going into the service menu then you should at least try and fix the problem that way. I would be very surprised however if that type of calibration is very thorough. Most sets I have encountered have offered no more than 10 points of convergence. I suspect that by going into the service menu of your set you will be able to fine tune the convergence with a 72 point grid pattern. Also, when you are doing convergence, it is a good idea to start from the center of the grid pattern and spiral out. Doing so will save you from having to go back and fourth between grid points as you make your adjustments.

If the problem is related to your gamma settings (which unfortunately is the case for almost all new and uncalibrated TVs), then I would recommend you hire an experienced calibrationist armed with a spectroradiometer, color analyzer, or optical comparator who then will be able to set the gamma correctly.

For future reference to any one considering RPTV, Toshiba's are the easiest to calibrate and maintain their calibrations the longest. Mitsubishi's are the worst in both respects (excellent PQ though once done). Sony's will hold their calibration well, but calibrating their gamma is complicated by the fact that each change in a drive or push results in a 100 degree or more difference. Compare that to Toshiba's which change only about 10 degrees. I have never worked on a Samsung, but I even in the case of Mitsu's and Sony's, its just a matter of practice and patience and eventually you can get it perfectly calibrated and have a superb picture.

Nils,

I have the Sound & Vision Tune-Up DvD and set the contrast, brightness, tint and color and looks good (I am sure avia is better). Also my RPTV has this options called Wizard auto focus, which sets up the focus automatically, but can I tell the difference? Not really. RPTV is new to me that why I need 2nd opinions and help if I am doing everything properly, I read the manual... but its not to much info on allot on what this RPTV has to offer in the setup menus,, so I just do not want to mess anything up ya know? :frowning: .

Hey guys maybe you can give me an opinion. I am seriously thinking now to return my RPTV for an Theater Projector. The price is about the same which is about 1600.00 and today I was at Frys and saw one that looked pretty good. But since I do not know nothing about them maybe you can assist me and let me know what the pros and cons owning an projector versus my RPTV.

The model I am looking at is made by CANON and the model# LV-S1. Now please forgive me since I once again have no knowledge about projects like you all have. But one main reason why I like projector is it takes up less space and I can always make the view size larger which is always great,,,,, oh and it can be portable .

But here is the link the the canon specs. Let me know your thoughts on it?

SPECS: http://www.canonprojectors.com/lvs1/s.html

ADDITIONAL INFO: http://www.canonprojectors.com/lvs1/index.html


Thanks guys

Mike

First of all, the LV-S1 is a data grade projector (300:1 contrast ratio is the most obvious way of telling). While it may do a decent job as a laptop presentation device, for video it will fall well short of projectors designed mainly for video.

There are some video grade projectors that can be had for about the same price. The one getting the most attention due to the positive reviews and rock bottom pricing is the InFocus X1 (MSRP $1,600; 1000 lumens; 2000:1 contrast ratio; 3000 lamp hours; and faroudja DCDi video processing chip set). Its only obvious weakness is resolution, but as long as you don't have a viewing distance to screen width ratio any smaller than 1.5:1 then the lower resolution will hardly be noticeable, if at all. Of course if it is noticeable you can make the image smaller so that the ratio is more like 2:1 or until the image appears smooth enough for you to enjoy the picture without being distracted by any pixcelation.

As for the pros and cons of RPTV vs FP.

RPTV = PICTURE QUALITY
Unless you spend the big bucks, even a basic RPTV will outperform a FP.

RPTV = SPECIAL FEATURES
Automatic Calibrations (with newer top of the line models), PIP, Channel Surfing, etc are common place in RPTV, but will not be found standard in any FP.

RPTV = EASE OF SET-UP/USE
While digital projectors have made the set-up and operation much easier than CRT FPs, they still don't come close to the simplicity of the true plug'n'play of RPTV.

RPTV = VIEWING W/AMBIENT LIGHTING
The advantage here is very significant. The nature of a RPTV is that it is a CRT FP in its own dark room (the cabinet), and you the viewer are in another room. The screen is the wall between the two rooms. The end result is that the image remains quit clear and vibrant even with lots of light in the viewing room because the projection room remains in complete darkness and the screen is not reflecting light from the viewing room. The opposite is true in a FP system so in order to get a good picture, the lights must be controlled, and preferably snuffed out.

RPTV = LOW COST
RPTV are still significantly less expensive. For even the top of the line models like the new Toshiba HiDef RPTVs, for only $2,500 you get a superb 7" CRT displaying a 61" picture with all the latest technological advancements, dual tuners, scaler, interpolator, DVI-HPCP, and much much more. For a top of the line FP expect to pay well over $10,000 of course that wont come with a screen which if you are looking for top of the line with run you at least another $1,000.

OK, now its the FP's turn to show off...

FP = LARGE PICTURE SIZE!!!!
Yes Virginia, bigger is better! FP can produce very large images, and if the projector and environment allow for it, the images can also be very good, if not excellent.

FP = MINIMUM REAL ESTATE
Unless you have the room to spare, RPTVs can be quite intrusive. Most large RPTVs will require a space of about 2.5' x 5'.

FP = PORTABILITY
A typical 61" RPTV weighs in at over 300lbs. Compared to a typical DLP which weighs in at under 10lbs. Enough said.

FP = EASIER UPGARDES/REPAIRS
Just like the common argument between separate audio components vs integrated ones, FPs are easy to upgrade as they are just one part of the system. Also repairs are much easier to do on a projector than on a RPTV due to the portability factor.


BOTTOM-LINE:
If you are on a tight budget and want the best possible PQ, can't control lighting (or unwilling to for comfort or aesthetics), watch TV/movies with four or fewer people, sit very close to the TV, or don't mind a small picture, then RPTV is the way to go at this time.

If you have a bigger budget, willing to spend some extra time installing and setting it up, want to watch TV/movies with a large crowd, enjoy a large screen size (92" or more), don't have the room to spare for a large cabinet, want to move the projector around or travel with it, or willing to do what ever is necessary to control the lighting, then FP is the way to go.

I'm curious though, will the shop that you bought your RPTV take it back for a refund? Or are they offering you credit toward a different purchase, because if so that will limit your choices.

Nils,
Thanks for the feedback it is very helpfull towards my purchase. I assume BB will take it back, I only had it for like 15 days and there rtrn policy is 30 days, so I do not see it as a problem So they should issue my refund.

- Don't get me wrong I love my samsung RPTV,,, just that I think for the future.

I was reading allot tonight on the projectors and it seems that the Lamp/light replacement can get expensive and last to about 2500-3000 hours of use before replacement. Can a light replacement be easily changed or have to hire an tech to come out and put it in for you?

If I do get an projector it will be used allot for both DVD and DirectTV watching. I do have now my old toshiba 32" color stream that now sits in my bedroom,,, so watching movies in the bedroom is not a bad idea,,, but I am really the BUM when it comes to the living room and my DvDs . As of now my living room space is 13'x18' and I view TV on the width of the walls which is 13'. The 18's I used to but wall space was limited.
:frowning: I should get a good aspect ratio on the 13' wall right? ABout how big can I enlarge the image to on a wall across the living room @ 13' ?

I was reading a link on this site about someone in Austin needing assistance on a LCD projector and you and the rest seemed like you guys like the Sanyo PLV-Z1 and infocus projectors,, which seems cool since both can meet 16:9 and less then 1900.00 in my pocket book.

I saw on here that you can get it as cheap as 1599.00 but I seem not to be able to find a shop that sells it for that cheap :frowning: You guys have any idea where I can get it for that price?

Thanks for letting me know that the Canon is not the riight choice .

As for setting it all up I will be just either buy an pull up or pull down screen,,, or is homemade screen easy to make for lesser $$'s ???

Thanks,
Mike

Guys have any experiences with a projector called BenQ SL703S??

Looks like by spec and price is really good. It says it has an wide angle lens that the projector can sit 7" away from the screen and go to 60" wide. It also supports 16:9 which I see can be really important. Here some info on it.

http://www.benq.com/projectors/proje...03s_specs.html

Opinions??

Thanks again,

Mike,

Well, I'll add a bit to what Nils said, but I differ on a few points. Keep in mind I am VERY biased towards FPTVs, so take this with a grain of salt, but I have very good reasons.

CRT RPTVS:

- Need converged regularly. Built in convergence will do a good job up to a point. Over time it will become more and more affected by the magnetic fields and the correction factor needed may exceed that of the self convergence software. At that point, you call a pro and he adjusts the lenses and CRTs inside. Its not cheap.

- All CRTs burn in. Wanna watch 4:3 TV? Gotta stretch it. Wanna watch a DVD movie? Well, many movies aren't in 16:9 format, they're in 2.35:1. Therefore you'll have black bars at the top and bottom -- uh oh, that'll burn in. So, you'll need to zoom them in as well. The point is, for everything but 16:9 material, you either risk burnin or have to watch it in a distorted format.

- Stretch mode for 4:3 sucks, and a lot of TV will be in 4:3 for years to come. Who wants to watch Friends and see Jennifer Anniston go from FAT to thin to FAT again as she walks across the screen? It sucks, IMO. I can't deal with it. And if you don't stretch, you'll burn in.

- CRT RPTVs have horrible off axis viewing. They're fine if you have 1 seat and 1 viewer right in front. Someone to the side? Oh well, it looks REALLY dim to them. FPTVs can use screens of many materials, some of which have uniform brightness off angle.

- To compensate for their dismal off axis viewing they use venticular screens -- ridged plastic. Works well in that it refracts light to the sides. Only downside is that it creates distortion along the edges of images, and the on-axis light is dimmed. Again, this sucks.

- I disagree with Nils, here. A cheap $2K HDTV CRT RPTV won't touch the image quality of a good FPTV as long as you sit a proportionately similar distance away. Put 10 people in a room with a $2500 60" RPTV and a similarly priced good 100" FPTV and ask them which picture they prefer, 9 out them will say the FPTV.

- RPTVs are big heavy boxes that dominate your room. They typically take up 2-3' of space from the wall, meaning your viewing distance is 2-3' less than an FPTV.

On the other hand, Digital FPTVs:

- Can watch any aspect ratio and will never burn in.

- Always have perfect focus once its set.

- Only maintenance required is a new bulb every few years at a cost of $200-300.

- Weigh

Dave,

Thanks for your feedback. I am leaning on getting the Infocus X1. The price sounds great and I like that it has a 3000 hour lamp life versus like the BenQ which is 1500 :frowning:

So from my understanding can you burn an image on the lens of an Infocus X1 by using incorrect aspect ratio or just only can happen on RPTVs (just help me understand)?

As of now I own an Samsung HCM-4215W RPTV. I never once watched an movie in 4:3 format and let my RPTV set it automatically.
On my DirectTV I can setup menu can view movies in 16:9,, but everything seems wide... so I go to my RPTVs setting and watch it in Panorama (looks better).
And for dvds I am running componet so I either watch movies in the 2 ratio's of 16:9. I am still a little confused about all ratios and burn ins so I dont play my playstation2 on my 42" rptv (i hear nightmares about gameing on one). But I do enjoy my RPTV,,, but I feel I will enjoy more with a front projector, so the X1 I am really considering buying. Where can I buy it for $1380.00 shipped? May I ask for an link?
Thanks a bunch!
Mike

Mike: Dave is saying that a key advantage of a digital projector over a CRT RPTV is that the projector will NOT burn in. So, the Infocus X1 (or any of these digital projectors) can display material of any aspect ratio without any worries about burn-in. This means you don't have to use the annoying stretch modes, and you can also play PS2 until the cows come home.

First, to answer Mike's questions (putting my response to Dave's critique of RPTV to the end )

"horrible", "dismal", "sucks", "only good for one person"

Dave, Dave, Dave... you got me worried. Did an RPTV bully you in High School?

Sure, there can be some drop in PQ on many models of RPTVs, that is of course why I recommend that you not consider RPTVs if you plan on watching it with a large group. If its only for four viewers, then off axis performance is absolutely not an issue. Frankly though, even then off axis PQ can be quite good depending on make and model. Sure, those old relic RPTVs were terrible when it cam to OAV, but that simply is not the case with the current crop of RPTVs. I was at a party for the NCAA championship game and the host had a very modest 57" RPTV in the family room. There must have been about 15 of us in the room and everyone was commenting how great the PQ was. In fact at one point I was watching from the kitchen which was at least 40 degrees of axis, and the PQ was excellent, not only that, but I was standing up, and at 6'1" I was certainly well off axis.

I can tell Dave loves his FP, as I do as well, but I have no doubt that I could set-up an RPTV next to his FP (displaying the same size) and the RPTV would make his (and my) FP look washed out and 2 dimensional. As an interesting example of this, I had clients who asked me to design HT systems with an RPTV built into the wall and a screen that would drop down in front of the RPTV for use with a Runco DLP FP when they wanted the "big screen". When I went back after the installation was complete and the RPTV had about 100 hours on it in preparation for ISF calibration, the owners said they stopped watching the FP as the picture paled in comparison to their RPTV. Keep in mind they spent over $15k on that Runco unit, it was at that time the best digital FP on the market and it still couldn't match the PQ of their 65" Pioneer Elite RPTV.

I'll end my "rebuttal" with the fact that each technology has its place. each with its own advantages and disadvantages, but at the end of the day it comes down to what do you like and the only way to discover that is by going out there and trying them out. I recommend when demoing various video displays that you bring along a portable DVD player with your own S-video cable and a calibration disc (such as Video Essentials, or AVIA). This will be the only way to properly compare image quality from one unit to another. Demo units are notoriously uncalibrated and using your own DVD and cables will eliminate any change in PQ that a dealer's equipment might have on your evaluation.

Remember to enjoy the search, be patient, and soon you will find the right device for your requirements - good luck!

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Nils,

Thank you for the quick reply and answering my questions.

I will take the info you gave me and sure will put it to the test. I do have a laptop w/ an dvd player that supports S-video. I will make sure I take it with me along with 3 or so dvd movies that supports all ratios and see how I like it compare to my digital HDTV.

When I was at your house I was very impressed with the pic quality of Star Wars II on your FP and yours is the only FP that I seen in action ever. All my friends that I know of have the same equipment like me and no FP.

I am more then likely 96% am gonna go with FP due to the fact that I want more room in my movie space area. I am in the market to sell my home ,, but since the Home market is sooo bad right now,,, the wife and I are planning on going with an 15 year loan with a 5.5% apr. Then we are just going to get an 2nd mortgage out and plan on X-tending our home and making a full theater room. So that is one of the main reasons why I am leaning towards FP for size and of course I love to some day here shortly do a Theater meet as you guys do. But for now I am no where I want to be due to size and quality of my equipment.
Thanks again for all the pointers and I would love to again attend to an home theater meet. The wife is so close on haveing our 2nd child and dadddy is going to be busy for a while, but I will check back and forth on here.
Thanks for everything!

Mike

P.S.

Dave, where can I buy that Infocus X1 for 1380.00 shipped as you stated above?
:b

Nils,

Well, like I said I am biased towards FPTV. But I also have a lot of experience with RPTVs. I do a lot of consulting on the side and worked in the high-end AV industy for a few years too.

CRT Burn-in: Well, my friend has a Toshiba 55H81 he bought about 8 months ago. He watches a lot of TV and B&W 4:3 movies. He also likes to watch CNN and CNBC during the day, but can't any longer due to the burn in at the bottom scroll bar. Gaming? Forgetaboutit. Toshiba told him he was SOL. Now he uses his old 30" TV for a lot of things as he doesn't want his RPTV to get worse.

Also, go check out Conn's. All the Mitsubishi RPTVs have warnings on them to "LIMIT 4:3 VIEWING TO LESS THAN 10% OR RISK CRT DAMAGE" on their 16:9 TVs. Not a very reassuring warning label, huh?

Fact is, all CRTs burn-in. If you're careful and mix up your viewing you should never notice it. Play a lot of video games or watch unstretched 4:3 TV and you probably will. Most RPTV buyers aren't like us, they just watch what they want. If that includes the wrong mix of material, they'll have burn-in. It may not bother them, but it would bother me.

To be fair, we need to consider a 65" RPTV vs. a good FPTV throwing a 65" picture. I'll agree that typical TW cable looks crappier the bigger it gets. Therefore, a 65" RPTV would be more watchable than a 100" FPTV. But compare them at the same size? I think the FPTV would win out. Compare HDTV at 100" vs. at 65" and I think it would be even more dramatic.

Now, I'm not against RPTVs. I agree they have their place. Want a 60" plug-n-play TV with no fuss? Get an RPTV.

Want a 60" plug-n-play TV to watch 4:3 TV and play video games? Get a DLP or LCoS RPTV (Which are more $$$). Don't mind tweaking a bit and want a more theater like experience? Get a good FPTV.

I guess I just think that a picture inside a box is still just a TV.....while a picture projected on a wall is more like a theater. I'm trying to play devils advocate a bit, since your original message seemed to lean towards an RPTV, I jumped in ;-)

Oh, Mike, go to shopper.com and search for Infocus X1. A couple of venders have it

Thanks Dave for finding the link about the price for the infocus X1 .

It seems to have a extended 3year warrenty if you buy the X1,,, which I had to pay an additional 300.00 for an 4 year on my rptv.

Here is what it says in quotes
"End User Customers that register their InFocus X1 projector within 30 days of purchase will receive 3-Years Service Extension at no charge (list price $159.00) . This will provide the end user with an additional 3 years of free labor in addition to the standard 2-year warranty coverage on parts and labor. This offer is valid through March 31, 2003. End user customers can register products online by going to http://www.infocus.com/service/register."

As for my rptv,,, never would of known that I can get a burn in if I watched movies in 4:3,,,, why is it that in my setting menu on my RPTV has a selector that can allow me to watch 4:3 if it can cause harm for burn it?:frowning:

As I read more of this , this is scaring me as an consumer to ever should of owned an RPTV. Its like what is the use to have one if you can't be promised to watch movies in any format to cause burn. not even once in my samsung manual says anything about burnin or not to play games on it... thats just awful!

Much more I hear about all this makes me an less consumer to have it!
I own an tube toshiba 32" tv that I had the contrast and sharpness all the way maxed out for the past 4 years and never caused an outage or damage to my tube, but ever since I owned the dvd called Sound & Vision tune up and watched it and I was just amazed that my 32" never caused any harm with all the settings way up and not cause damage.
Maybe its more pointing towards rptv's but it did not say on the dvd.

Notice you say it take more tweaking for an fp. Like what is there really to tweak?
Setting it up to make sure it hits the screen? or setting up the color settings? If so I was demo'in the little cannon fp that was sitting on a shelf and I did all the calibration's to make sure it hit the wall the way I wanted. I just want to make sure when you say tweaking?

Thanks guyZ!
But anyways FP here I come!!!