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multi-criteria tournament


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#1 of 884 OFFLINE   george kaplan

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Posted January 04 2003 - 03:00 AM

We have these tourneys and there's always lots of disagreements, at least in part because of the different criteria we bring to bear. So, I thought it would be good to have a tourney where the criteria was explicit and see what happens.

For each matchup you will cast 4 votes.

1 - film you'd rather see (let's say you're on a flight and you get to pick which of the two films they play (uncensored Posted Image)

2 - the more serious film

3 - the film that is better art

4 - which film you think is better overall (however you define that)

Now, for all of us, some of these categories are going to be redundant. But, I think which categories are redundant are going to vary from person to person. For example, some (like me) will see no difference between 1 or 3, whereas I know some will not think 1 and 3 are the same at all.

As far as the films, I'm stealing the top 64 from the HTF 100 revote thread and just using those.


Please cast 4 votes even if they are all the same. For example: Film X vs. Film Y

rather watch: X
more serious: X
better art: Y
better film: X

Bracket 1:

Taxi Driver vs. Sunset Blvd
"Movies should be like amusement parks. People should go to them to have fun." - Billy Wilder

"Subtitles good. Hollywood bad." - Tarzan, Sight & Sound 2012 voter.

"My films are not slices of life, they are pieces of cake." - Alfred Hitchcock"My great humility is just one of the many reasons that I...

#2 of 884 OFFLINE   Paul_D

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Posted January 04 2003 - 03:07 AM

1 Sunset Blvd Less of a downer, though still barely uplifting. Good enough reason?
2 Sunset Blvd They're both very serious films, but I find the story of SB more compelling/gripping.
3 Taxi Driver It's masterfully made and contains some perfectly designed shots. I also think it handles a tricky concept with wit, and an appropriate grim reality. It also has one of my favourite Herrman film scores.
4 Sunset Blvd As good as I think TD is, there's a gradeur that comes with SB. It's a magnificent film, marveelously played, and with a script that touches at the very core of its characters.[/end pretentious ramble] Posted Image
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#3 of 884 OFFLINE   Jim_K

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Posted January 04 2003 - 03:23 AM

rather watch: Taxi Driver
more serious: Taxi Driver - close
better art: Taxi Driver - close
better film: Taxi Driver

George,

I'd suggest another category: More entertaining: although it'll probably stir up some hot debates with some around here. Posted Image
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#4 of 884 OFFLINE   Walter Kittel

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Posted January 04 2003 - 03:39 AM

Rather Watch: Taxi Driver - More involving due to DeNiro's performance, and easier to relate to given the time difference and settings of the films.

More Serious: Taxi Driver - Tempted to vote for S.B., but T.D.'s themes of isolation and disaffection with society are fairly serious and are probably more relevant.

Better Art: Sunset Blvd. - The film's examination of the nature of stardom, the dialogue, the surreal aspects of Norma Desmond's life, and the cinematography all give the film a more artistic flair.

Better Film: Taxi Driver - Mostly on the basis of emotional committment. DeNiro's Travis Bickle had more impact upon me than any of the characters in Sunset Blvd.. Very close.

- Walter.

Fidelity to the source should always be the goal for Blu-ray releases.

#5 of 884 OFFLINE   ChuckDeLa

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Posted January 04 2003 - 03:47 AM

Why do I feel like George has an agenda with this tourney?

Anyhoo, abstain... only seen about 15 minutes of Sunset Blvd.

#6 of 884 OFFLINE   Jan H

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Posted January 04 2003 - 03:58 AM

Rather Watch: Sunset Blvd.
More Serious: Taxi Driver - only because it's more "grisly".
Better Art: Tie
Better Film: Toss-up

#7 of 884 OFFLINE   Dome Vongvises

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Posted January 04 2003 - 05:42 AM

ChuckDeLa said:
Quote:
Why do I feel like George has an agenda with this tourney?

If there is one, I can kind of agree with it. I'm curious to see the how folks would now vote.

1. Taxi Driver I'm like De Niro's films a lot so far.
2. Taxi Driver It's what Jan H said.
3. Taxi Driver I'd have to say Scorsese direction says more, although what's being said is a puzzle to me.
4. you guessed it Taxi Driver In a slight edge.

Don't get me wrong, I like Sunset Blvd. quite a bit, and it features one of the creepiest performances ever.

#8 of 884 OFFLINE   Bill J

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Posted January 04 2003 - 06:04 AM

rather watch: Sunset Blvd.
more serious: Sunset Blvd.
better art: Sunset Blvd.
better film: Sunset Blvd.

#9 of 884 OFFLINE   Rain

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Posted January 04 2003 - 06:09 AM

rather watch: Sunset Blvd.
more serious: Taxi Driver
better art: Sunset Blvd.
better film: Sunset Blvd.

"Imagine all the people, living life in peace..." - Imagine by John Lennon

#10 of 884 OFFLINE   george kaplan

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Posted January 04 2003 - 06:32 AM

I'd suggest another category: More entertaining:
I guess 'rather watch' and 'more entertaining' are so synonymous to me that I never thought of them as separate categories. I think for now I'm going to leave it as it is, although there could certainly be lots of variations of these categories.

Why do I feel like George has an agenda with this tourney?
I'm not sure. Posted Image Honestly, I don't really know what you think my 'agenda' is. I just thought it would be interesting to see how these different criteria would modify the results. As far as the films I picked, I wanted to look at all 100 films on the HTF list, but didn't want to push this to 128, and just couldn't decide which ones to eliminate, so I just took the top 64, although I really would like to see how films like Do The Right Thing would compare across these categories.
"Movies should be like amusement parks. People should go to them to have fun." - Billy Wilder

"Subtitles good. Hollywood bad." - Tarzan, Sight & Sound 2012 voter.

"My films are not slices of life, they are pieces of cake." - Alfred Hitchcock"My great humility is just one of the many reasons that I...

#11 of 884 OFFLINE   Andrew_Sch

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Posted January 04 2003 - 06:36 AM

Rather Watch: Sunset Boulevard
More Serious: Taxi Driver
Better Art: Taxi Driver
Better Film: Sunset Boulevard
"Old theatres are irreplaceable. They could never be duplicated at today's costs - but more importantly, their spirit could not be duplicated because they remind us of a day when going to the show was a more glorious and escapist experience. I think a town's old theatres are the sanctuary of...

#12 of 884 OFFLINE   Jim_K

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Posted January 04 2003 - 07:42 AM


I guess 'rather watch' and 'more entertaining' are so synonymous to me that I never thought of them as separate categories.


But you do think of Rather Watch & Better Film as separate categories? Sorry but I'm not understanding your thought process now.

I know where you're trying to go with this experiment (and I might tend to slightly agree with you in theory) but you totally threw me off with this.

I'll still play along here but I do hope the future match-ups become a little more challenging lets say by pitting some HTF holy grails, fan-boy favorites & critically acclaimed untouchables against each other.
Death before Streaming!


#13 of 884 OFFLINE   Dome Vongvises

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Posted January 04 2003 - 09:21 AM

Jim_K said:
Quote:
But you do think of Rather Watch & Better Film as separate categories? Sorry but I'm not understanding your thought process now.


For a lot of people, myself particularly, that's an easy distinction. I'd rather watch Star Wars than any other film any day of the week, but there are better films out there (better in terms of direction, cinematography, acting). So I dont' think that's too hard.

It's just that 9 out of 10 times, I always vote for the film I prefer in these tourneys. That's why I think georgekaplan's "experiment" is interesting. Posted Image

#14 of 884 OFFLINE   Andrew_Sch

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Posted January 04 2003 - 09:53 AM

After rethinking, I changed one of my votes.
"Old theatres are irreplaceable. They could never be duplicated at today's costs - but more importantly, their spirit could not be duplicated because they remind us of a day when going to the show was a more glorious and escapist experience. I think a town's old theatres are the sanctuary of...

#15 of 884 OFFLINE   george kaplan

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Posted January 04 2003 - 10:13 AM

I do hope the future match-ups become a little more challenging lets say by pitting some HTF holy grails, fan-boy favorites & critically acclaimed untouchables against each other.
I don't know which specific films you're after, but the films in this tournament are the top 64 in the list from this thread
"Movies should be like amusement parks. People should go to them to have fun." - Billy Wilder

"Subtitles good. Hollywood bad." - Tarzan, Sight & Sound 2012 voter.

"My films are not slices of life, they are pieces of cake." - Alfred Hitchcock"My great humility is just one of the many reasons that I...

#16 of 884 OFFLINE   SteveGon

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Posted January 04 2003 - 04:18 PM

Rather watch: Sunset Blvd.
More serious: Taxi Driver
Better art: Sunset Blvd.
Better film: can't decide

Very tough matchup!

#17 of 884 OFFLINE   george kaplan

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Posted January 05 2003 - 12:50 AM

The results:

rather watch: Sunset Blvd
more serious: Taxi Driver
better art: Sunset Blvd (I broke this tie)
better film: Sunset Blvd

I should mention that I'm trying to count these votes very carefully, but if I make a mistake at some point, I apologize in advance Posted Image

Next bracket,

To Kill a Mockingbird vs. Duck Soup
"Movies should be like amusement parks. People should go to them to have fun." - Billy Wilder

"Subtitles good. Hollywood bad." - Tarzan, Sight & Sound 2012 voter.

"My films are not slices of life, they are pieces of cake." - Alfred Hitchcock"My great humility is just one of the many reasons that I...

#18 of 884 OFFLINE   SteveGon

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Posted January 05 2003 - 12:57 AM

abstain

Haven't seen Duck Soup in a really, really long time.

#19 of 884 OFFLINE   Walter Kittel

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Posted January 05 2003 - 01:34 AM

To Kill A Mockingbird - all four categories.

- Walter.

Fidelity to the source should always be the goal for Blu-ray releases.

#20 of 884 OFFLINE   Rob Tomlin

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Posted January 05 2003 - 02:48 AM

Yet another great idea for a tourney George!

I think I'm glad I missed the first bracket, since I absolutely love both Taxi Driver and Sunset Boulevard.

I probably would vote like this:

Rather watch: Taxi Driver (barely)

More serious: Draw

Better art: Taxi Driver (slightly better cinematography, and perfectly captures the streets of New York)

Better film: Taxi Driver (by a very slim margin)

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