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A personal DTS observation...


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#1 of 24 OFFLINE   David Coleman

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Posted December 15 2002 - 07:18 PM

I'm one of those people who usually always prefers the DTS track over the DD. Titles i've prefered DTS include:

Dragonheart
LOTR: Fellowship of the Rings
Courage Under Fire
Saving Private Ryan
Vertical Limit
U-571
Mask of Zorro
T2
Jurrasic Park
Die Hard Trilogy
The Mummy: UE
Tombstone
Unbreakable

What i've always found in those titles in tighter bass, more detail, less strident sound and more coherent interchannel balance.

Having said that there are some DD titles I prefer over the DTS:

The Rock: CC
Blade 2
Speed: 5 Star
Chain Reaction
Lethal Weapon: Director's Cuts

in all the cases where I prefer the DD it seems to me as though the DTS sounds more "compressed". It seems the frequency range is compromised over the DD in those titles i prefer the DD. In the DTS I prefer it never presents that problem.

What i'm wondering is why some sound better than the DD and some sound more compressed? Wondering if their encoder might have some strange anomaly to it?

Would like for those of you who normally prefer DTS and yet there are some in DD that you prefer, could you chime in the differences you are hearing that makes you prefer the DD on that particular release?

Thanks,

David

#2 of 24 OFFLINE   Rob Lutter

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Posted December 16 2002 - 03:39 AM

Quote:
What i'm wondering is why some sound better than the DD and some sound more compressed?
Some DTS tracks are mastered a a lower level as the DD tracks on dual releases (it is usually the other way around)... try turning up the volume to get the same exact sound Posted Image

#3 of 24 OFFLINE   Jeff Kleist

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Posted December 16 2002 - 03:42 AM

Also many of the titles you list have been cooked by DTS toward the strengths of their codec

#4 of 24 OFFLINE   Eujin

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Posted December 16 2002 - 07:52 AM

Don't know about the other titles on your list, but I concur about The Rock--the DTS track is definitely not as good on this one, and no amount of tweaking has ever led me to believe otherwise on my system. On Blade II, I never bothered with the DD track because the DTS track sounded really good to me. Perhaps this will be a good excuse to watch it again. Posted Image

#5 of 24 OFFLINE   Robert Franklin

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Posted December 16 2002 - 09:45 AM

Just remember, there are NO sound adjustments that are made in the DTS version of ANY movie! Whatever is encoded on the CD-ROM, you get the same exact sound as that. The only difference is the encoding rate since most newer dts tracks are encoded at 754 Kb/s. To me, on my system there is no Dolby track that sounds better than the DTS track. There are a few titles that have a DTS-Like sound to them, but nothing better to me. Of course everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, and I can respect that. But it has been made apparent to me that most people who cannot tell the difference between Dolby and DTS when comparing tracks, cannot hear the detail that the DTS version retains. The soundstage, the clarity, and including a well-defined low end. Dolby sounds good, but ask yourself this question. If CDs are 1536 Kb/s uncompressed, and full-bit rate DTS is 1509, half-bit rate is 754, which is half-bit rate, and both are at a compression rate of 4:1, does that still sounds better than 448 or 386 at 12:1. What can you hear compressed 12:1? Of course Star Wars: Episode II sounds wonderful. I love it too! But, in reality, I'd rather have it in DTS.

So, to end this, there are no Dolby tracks that sound better than there DTS counterparts in my system!!

RF

#6 of 24 OFFLINE   Jeff Kleist

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Posted December 16 2002 - 10:07 AM

Actually, theatrical DTS is a virtually totally different format from DVD DTS

And Dreamworks will come right out and tell you, Gladiator and Saving Private Ryan are a TOTALLY DIFFERENT MIX on the DTS version. Reinforcing the point that DTS cooks their mixes is the fact that since DTS encoders have been made available to studios and authoring houses (before that DTS had to compress the tracks) there have been tons of complaints about the DTS track "sounding virtually no different from the DD" suprise suprise. Ron doesn't listen to the Dolby tracks, and that's his perogative, but A/B compare the titles blind and at equal volume and I dare you to pick out the DTS on 90% of movies

Also, to many people louder=better, and since DTS is typically 4db higher in volume than the DD track, it's "better"

Don't be a DTS zombie.

#7 of 24 OFFLINE   Patrick McCart

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Posted December 16 2002 - 10:19 AM

I've found that most titles simply don't have a lot of difference between DD and DTS tracks.

However...here's a few that I have found noticable improvments in the DTS track:

Big Trouble in Little China (the score is much more vibrant)
Fantasia (warmer/more detailed sound)
Moulin Rouge! (better ambience)
O Brother Where Art Thou? (again, better ambience)

While it's nice to have obvious directionality, I find it more remarkable to hear stuff like ambience.

#8 of 24 OFFLINE   Ron-P

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Posted December 16 2002 - 10:21 AM

I was very happy that the EE of The Lord of the Rings would have a dts track. After giving it my best shot for nearly an hour I could not calibrate my system to deliver decent bass, so I switched on over to the dd track and it sounded excellent with good tight, clean bass.

I usually always opt for the dts track but I am finding as of late that some of the dd tracks are just as good or even better (at least on my rig) than the dts track.


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#9 of 24 OFFLINE   Joshua Moran

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Posted December 16 2002 - 10:35 AM

the thing I notice with DTS is the the surrounds seem more clear & clean on my setup.

#10 of 24 OFFLINE   Rich Romero

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Posted December 16 2002 - 10:36 AM

The DTS on Lord of the Rings: EE is much better to me if i turn up my sub on my reciever. Otherwise, it's definitely weaker.
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#11 of 24 OFFLINE   Jeff Kleist

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Posted December 16 2002 - 03:17 PM

In contrast to Ron's findings. I found the bass on the DD to be way overvblown. The BIG problem I had with the DD mix was the shriek of the arrows in Khazad'dum, the high end is quite muted on the DD while the shriek is sharp on the DTS.

#12 of 24 OFFLINE   Adam Barratt

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Posted December 16 2002 - 04:29 PM

Quote:
full-bit rate DTS is 1509, half-bit rate is 754, which is half-bit rate, and both are at a compression rate of 4:1

DTS's compression ratio remaining the same at both bit-rates would be quite a trick! With source material of the same resolution, as the bit-rate goes down the compression goes up. 754kbps DTS 5.1 is roughly 6.4:1 with 20-bit material. 448kbps Dolby Digital 5.1 would be roughly 10.7:1 with the same material. Interesting numbers, but only of academic interest and certainly of no use as indicators of actual sound quality.

Adam

#13 of 24 OFFLINE   Dave H

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Posted December 16 2002 - 07:56 PM

I have encountered few movies where there is a noticable difference between the DD and DTS. However, I really haven't made many comparisons as I probably should.

But, I did notice a BIG diffence on LOTR. The DD bass sounds much too overblown and unnatural. The DTS is much better and natural. More bass isn't necessarily better.

#14 of 24 OFFLINE   AnthonyMP

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Posted December 16 2002 - 08:07 PM

Anyone been able to compare the Galaxy Quest DD/DTS tracks and have any thoughts?

#15 of 24 OFFLINE   Matty Bradshaw

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Posted December 16 2002 - 08:50 PM

Try Band Of Brothers, the center dialogue is so much clearer
and the bass is so much better.

#16 of 24 OFFLINE   Richard Kim

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Posted December 17 2002 - 02:51 AM

Quote:
But, I did notice a BIG diffence on LOTR. The DD bass sounds much too overblown and unnatural. The DTS is much better and natural. More bass isn't necessarily better.

I didn't get a chance to listen to DD track on the FOTR EE, but the theatrical DD track had way too much bass. The DTS EE was much more balanced to me. Is the EE DD track essentially the same as the theatrical?

#17 of 24 OFFLINE   Ron-P

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Posted December 17 2002 - 05:47 AM

Quote:
The DTS is much better and natural. More bass isn't necessarily better.

Maybe that's my problem, I'm trying to recreate the overblown bass as that is what I am used to. I'll have to go back to the dts track and try to calibrate it further.


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#18 of 24 OFFLINE   DeanWalsh

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Posted December 17 2002 - 08:15 AM

Quote:
Reinforcing the point that DTS cooks their mixes


I could care less if it's been 'cooked' or not as long as it sounds better.

Quote:
Also, to many people louder=better, and since DTS is typically 4db higher in volume than the DD track, it's "better"

Don't be a DTS zombie.


Robert stated that he prefered dts for the improved soundstage, clarity and low-end. These are things that just turning up the volume will not improve. These are the same reasons I prefer dts, as it resolves the finer details of the soundtrack.

#19 of 24 OFFLINE   Adam Lenhardt

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Posted December 17 2002 - 08:22 AM

Quote:
I could care less if it's been 'cooked' or not as long as it sounds better.
The point was that since DTS no longer encodes the mixes, this advantage is no longer present.

#20 of 24 OFFLINE   Adam Barratt

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Posted December 17 2002 - 04:05 PM

Quote:
Robert stated that he prefered dts for the improved soundstage, clarity and low-end. These are things that just turning up the volume will not improve.

Quite the contrary. From a perceptual standpoint, soundstaging, bass and clarity are precisely the things that seem to improve with an increase in volume.

Bumping up the volume has long been a favourite trick among unscrupulous audio dealers: increasing the playback volume of a given system by only a couple of dB results in the perception of better bass, clarity and soundstaging. That's not to say Robert doesn't actually hear these things, but a difference of 4dB cannot be dismissed is unimportant or insignificant.

Adam


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