Yamaha DVD-1500 (1 Viewer)

[Carlo_M]

Anyone receive a 1500 yet? Any thoughts?

 

[Matt_Smi]

I will be following this thread as I am very interested in this player. Seems like a quality universal player for a fair price. Although I must admit I am not too familiar with SACD/DVD-A and do not know what the significance of the bass management cut off frequency is, what is bad what is good, what you want ideally, ect.

 

[Matt_Smi]

Anyone have any new info on this player? And could someone please breifly explain the deal with bass managmnet, and what you ideally want? This will bump the thread anyway

 

[PaulDA]

Ideally, you would want a digital connection to your receiver or pre/pro so that you could apply the same kind of bass/time management to hi-res music that you do for Dolby Digital and DTS soundtracks, with multiple choices of crossover frequencies for each speaker (though I suspect most people would settle for being able to set a global crossover for all speakers, provided they could choose the frequency). The industry is slowly moving that way, currently with fairly expensive equipment.

However, the vast majority of receivers and pre/pros out there cannot apply any form of bass management to the incoming analogue signal (which is how the vast majority of hi-res info is transmitted). The next best thing is to have the player provide the kind of BM I describe above and a few do. Most, however, have a fixed crossover point, usually at 100hz, though there are variations between 80hz and 120hz (one even has it at 200hz, I think it's the Pioneer 563a). Within these parameters, the crossovers sometimes differ for SACD compared to DVD-A, either by frequency and/or slope. The lack of flexibility here is annoying to most people. Still, it's better than the early players that offered no bass/time management at all. Outlaw Audio created a device to address this issue, the ICBM. It gives bass management flexibility in the analogue domain, but does not give time alignment capabilities.

There are a handful of receivers and pre/pros (mine among them) that provide digital bass/time management to hi-res sources by re-digitizing the analogue signal of the multichannel inputs, and thus allowing you to choose the crossover frequency (globally in my case) and applying time delays as necessary. This is a source of controversy for some, as the additional A/D/A is said to "corrupt" the hi-res signal--though many who have this feature say it is worth the "corruption" to apply bass AND time management in their less than ideal speaker setup (no room for the prefered ITU speaker arrangement in the real world of family rooms, dens and small apartments, etc.).

Of course, there is the issue of bass/time management of DSD. Many players convert DSD to PCM in order to apply bass/time management, either for bass, time or both (if you use a receiver like mine in the manner described above, it's for both). You can search this forum, and others on the various merits, or lack thereof, of this methodology and you'll find heated debates over the effects this will have on the quality of DSD playback (I won't go into it here).

I don't know if this answers your question, but I hope it helps.

 

[Bob_Hitson]

I was told the DVDS-1500 was going to be delayed approximately two months by an Ultimate Electronics salesman today (05/17/04). They said the DVD-S2300 Mk II is on schedule.

They have the DVD-S1500 in their sale catalog for $399.

 

[Matt_Smi]

Thanks much for the explanations Paul, it certainly helps! So basically most receivers only offer their bass management via a digital input, not an analog signal like SACD/DVD-A requires. So you want a DVD player that can handle bass management and that offers flexible crossover points, and this way you could also possibly match the players crossover point with that of your receiver's BM crossover point. Thanks again for the response.

 

[Rob Kramer]

Paul: perfect!

Matt: exactly.


Just to re-word, and over-simplify ...

99% of universal DVD players pass their DVD-A and SACD signals via the analog pre-outs (the 1% that dont are expensive and require matching receivers). When converting the signal frpm digital to analog, the player needs to apply it own bass management (receivers dont apply BM to analog signals).

For crossover points, you are at the mercy of the player, and unfortunately, the manufacturers just dont get it. In most cases, manufacturers have set the crossover point to a fixed 100 or 120 hz. I would expect to see this on low-end HTIB products, but for most consumers [who are really buying DVD-A/SACD media] this is a huge blunder that criples their [decent] speakers.

What we really want (and require) is an adjustable x-over point between (at the very least) 60 and 100 hz. If you are going to provide a fixed point, 80 hz (thx spec) is an ok compromise. 120 is nuts, and 200 is completely insane.

Of course, none of this matters if you run full-range speakers all around (2.0 / 5.0 / 7.0)

I know there more to it than what I stated above (DVD-A vs SACD points, front vs rear points, etc) but the above explination covers the main point.

 

[Rob Kramer]

If true, this puts it right smack in the middle of the new Denon models. The yamaha would not stand a chance.


The 2300's x-over is fixed at 100/120 (one for DVD-A, the other for SACD).

 

[Carlo_M]

I would agree if the Denon models come in at or near the price. The main advantage that the Yammy had for me was the fact that it was $200+ MSRP cheaper than the 2200 (and my local dealer who cuts me a break is an authorized Yammy dealer so my savings would have been substantially more).

If the Denons still come in at $600 MSRP or higher, my pocketbook will unfortunately force me to still lean towards the Yammy.

 

[Jim Prillaman]

My budget seems to match Carlo's -- I would certainly not turn the Denon 2200 down, but my budget can't really handly the $600. $400 for an S1500 is within my reach, which is why I've been watching for news about it. My local Yamaha dealer was expecting the first shipment in June, and I'm on the list to be contacted when they arrive.

 

[Flasshe]

I gave up waiting on the 1500 and bought a Denon 2200. Several online retailers have it for less than $500. I showed one of the ads to a local dealer and got him down to $500. So, you really don't have to spend $600 for it if you do a little haggling or order online.

--Rog

 

[Carlo_M]

Nor do you have to spend $399 for the Yammy if your on friendly terms w/ a dealer. Plus, you get Yammy to honor the warranty, which in this day and age of disposable electronics, might be a bit important.

 

[Matt_Smi]

I am in the same position as Jim and Carlo, I would not mind a Denon 2200 (or the new model that is coming out), but really cannot budget paying $500-600 on just a DVD player. Where as $300-400 for the Yamaha seems much more realistic for me.

 

[Dan Driscoll]

Also, having the Yamaha available will probably push down the street price of the Denon.