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WWDC 2011 Live Discussion Thread 6/6/11

Discussion in 'Apple' started by Ronald Epstein, Jun 3, 2011.

  1. Craig S

    Craig S Premium
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    Sam, from my reading of the description that's exactly the case, assuming they still have those tracks currently available in iTunes. Not only will you have access to DRM-free versions, they'll be 256 kbps instead of the 128 kpbs you probably purchased them at.


    Edit: Hmm, maybe not. From Apple's "iTunes in the Cloud" page:



    But apparently the new Purchase History / Download to all of your Devices feature is available in "beta" today, by downloading iTunes 10.3. It will be interesting to see if your older tracks show up there as accessable in DRM-free versions.
     
  2. Keith Plucker

    Keith Plucker Premium
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    Well, free for the 9 Apple apps anyway. From what Steve Jobs said it seems pretty clear that any third party apps that use the iCloud APIs will be storing their files on space you have to pay for. Not to say that is unreasonable.


    Lion available only by download seems odd to me. By the description in the keynote, if you have to reinstall Lion on a machine, you will have install Snow Leopard first, then download Lion and install that? Hopefully we will at least be able to back up the Lion download locally so it doesn't have to be downloaded again and again.


    -Keith
     
  3. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    I was pretty let down by this Keynote. First one in a while where I wasn't chomping at the bit to get new hardware or software.
     
  4. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Well-Known Member

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    I just skimmed over the overview that Ron posted. All looks great.


    I have concerns about cloud computing. I really like the idea of iCloud replacing mobile me and is free. I never signed up for it and I like that its free now. However above, someone said drop box will be hurt by this. I've used drop box to share files with clients. What I want to know is if I can do that too with iCloud. That would be great if we can set up a folder there for shared files. So it's not about sharing files from my iDevices, but more about sharing work files like CAD files I'm creating or Illustrator files, etc.


    And while I wouldn't put my SS number out there, how secure is this? If I can get my mail or contacts pushed to all my devices, is it safe? I like this functionality, but always worry about the security of the server. And also what I worry about in cloud computing in general is what if the servers go down? While my data is still on my devices, what about my files? Or music in the case of some of you? I rip my CD's in iTunes, so I've never bought a song, nor do I plan to. I like iTunes and it's not a knock on iTunes at all, I just rather have the CD as back-up. I know, that's old thinking!


    I'm sure this will work out great and server going down is unlikely!
     
  5. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Administrator
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    Nelson,


    I will give you my initial guess response to your questions

    based on my usage of MobileMe over the years.


    For over three years now I have paid $99 for the service.

    That should tell you how much value I see in the product.

    Basically, to have all my information (Mail, iCal, Address

    Book, Bookmarks) shared across my devices is a wonderful

    thing. The second I make a change on one device, it is
    pushed to all.

    Even when I set up a new Mac, Mobile me automatically

    syncs all my bookmarks to Safari, sets up my Mail with

    a complete history of INBOX and OUTBOX messages,

    including individual folders.

    MobileMe was problematic in the beginning, but over
    the past year or two, it has worked pretty flawlessly.

    So, basically iCloud is an extension of MobileMe.


    There is a mention that 5GB of data storage will be

    provided, so yes, like Dropbox, it should allow sharing

    of files across devices. MobileMe had something called

    iDisk which I believe was pretty much the same thing.

    I never used it, because I have been a fan of Dropbox.


    Is it secure? Supposed to be, but then again we have

    seen all sorts of hacks to servers we thought were
    secure including the recent Sony PS3 accounts.

    I tend to trust these things and let the chips fall where

    they may. To date, nobody has hacked into an Apple

    service to steal data.


    Do the servers go down? They have in MobileMe.

    What happens is you just cannot sync until the servers

    go back up. I have to say, such an occurrence is very rare.


    One question I have....


    As most of my music is ripped from CDs -- not bought

    from iTunes -- will iCloud still sync my complete iTunes

    library across devices?
     
  6. Craig S

    Craig S Premium
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    I don't agree with that interpretation. Do you have a quote? I would assume that as long as you have room in your initial free 5 GB allotment, any third-party apps using the APIs would be able to use it. I do expect Apple to offer more space for a fee for those who need/want it, but I think it would be more trouble than it's worth for Apple to keep two separate chunks of storage that are used depending on which app is calling the API.
     
  7. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Administrator
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    Craig,


    The first thing I thought when I heard this was,

    "Well, there goes people handing their friends copies

    of MAC OS X installation discs."


    Really, I think this is an effort not only to make it

    more convenient for people to get software immediately

    (no mail orders or store visits) -- but a method of preventing

    people from sharing copies of OS X with friends and family.


    I am all for this. Imagine being able to download Lion the

    second it's available. No waiting for a copy to be shipped

    or having to go to the Apple store.


    To date, Apple really hasn't cracked down on sharing

    of its software. Unlike Microsoft, most of their major

    software is installed without a serial number or any method

    of tying the user to it. Apple used to refer to it as trusting

    their users.


    Now, installations of software are tied to your device.


    Of course, I don't expect that will stop the pirates as a lot

    of App Store products end up on the pirate market anyway.
     
  8. Craig S

    Craig S Premium
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    Ron, I am in the same boat as you re: CDs (see my post above). The way I understand it is, you subscribe to the iTunes Match service, it scans your local library with all your ripped tunes, and all of those which it can match in the iTunes store are now available (DRM free, 256 kbps AAC) to all of your iCloud-enabled Macs & devices - as long as your subscription is active. A flat $25 a year seems a very reasonable price to me for this service.
     
  9. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Administrator
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    Craig,


    Here is the caveat to that.


    I use Apple Lossless to rip my music. Most of my 6,000 song

    library is with music that has a bitrate above 800kbps.


    Why would I want any of that dumbed down to 256kbps?


    So, it seems, if I didn't buy the music on iTunes and I don't

    want to have my current music "downgraded" to iTunes quality,

    then I cannot share it across devices.
     
  10. DaveF

    DaveF Moderator
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    Lion...I don't know what to make of it. Were there new features besides googly-eyes in PhotoBooth? Does it ship with a free Magic TrackPad? I'll have to re-read the feature list, because I'm not sure what I get for my $30 on my 2007 MBP.


    iOS5, however, I want today. Quick camera access from the lockscreen? I'll use that regularly. iMessages? Maybe I can save money on my SMS plan! Syncing!!!!!! (!!!!) Free MobileMe...can I forward my domain email to it, like I do with Gmail? (fingers crossed) Notifications that look handy, with the lockscreen thingy.




    I've tried. I can't. :) Unlike Steve Jobs, apparently, I operate in a task-centric mode, not application-centric. Apple's created an easy-to-design, simple to understand multiple desktop system that's largely useless. I keep hoping they'll get it right.





    How is FB on the outs with this? Twitter? FB made it quite clear with the Ping thing that they have no interest in playing ball with Apple. I wouldn't think they'd care about this.


    All the ToDo list and Syncing people were living on borrowed time. So it goes.
     
  11. Craig S

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    I hear you, and I do expect this is part of it. It will certainly make life harder for "Hackintoshers". But see below on the "sharing with friends and family part".



    That's my point - all I can do is imagine it. On my crappy Verizon DSL I'll start this download when I get home from work on release day, and it MIGHT be done when I wake up the next morning. Also, I have three Macs - I know I only have to pay for it once, but do I have to download it separately for each of them, or can I share the initial download somehow?


    I am far from alone in having crappy internet. The US as a whole MUCH worse off in having widespread, affordable hi-speed broadband available then many of the more fortunate/optimistic tech pundits (and Apple executives??) would have you believe.


    There are other issues. I already talked about machines which are kept off the internet. What if you have to reload a Mac - do you have to reload Snow Leopard and then re-download Lion?? Aren't they going to continue to ship reload DVDs with new machines when Lion is available??


    Bottom line - it is NOT the right time for Apple to go download-only on their 4 GB OS. They like to drive users as quickly as possible to their latest OSs, but they will leave too many users behind on this one if they don't provide an option to buy physical media. I'm guessing sometime between now and the actual launch date they will announce exacty that (probably at a higher price)



    Actually, installations are tied to your Apple ID. Once purchased, you can install Lion to any Snow Leopard machine by logging on to the App Store with your Apple ID. So Apple is still trusting their users not to abuse that privilege.
     
  12. Ted Todorov

    Ted Todorov Well-Known Member

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    I am in the same boat as you, but I keep 256kbps copies of the Apple Lossless stuff for purposes of iDevice synching. You use lossless on your iPhone, etc? I don't have enough room.

    If iCloud works correctly, you should be able to synch 256K onto your iDevices without having 256K on your Macs iTunes Library.
     
  13. Ted Todorov

    Ted Todorov Well-Known Member

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    MobileMe user info: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4597


    What happens to you 20GB worth of potential email storage? Can you expand the free 5GB on iCloud, how, how much?
     
  14. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Administrator
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    I betcha there will be a "Family Pack" that will be
    available (at a premium) that you can download on

    additional devices.


    That's a pretty good guess.


    Dave said he didn't know what to make of Lion.


    I think I have it pretty much summed up.


    Lion completes the Mac integration experience

    between computer and iOS5.


    You can see it in Lion. Lion looks and works

    more like iOS 5 than anything we have had

    before.

    I think the biggest goal for Apple was to be
    able to integrate all the functionality across

    every device. The fact they are giving iCloud

    away for free shows that they want every Apple

    device to interact with each other seamlessly.
     
  15. Craig S

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    Ahh, good point on Apple Lossless rips. We'll have to see on that one, although my guess is the deals they made with the music industry to allow this to happen probably cap the quality at 256 kbps.
     
  16. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Administrator
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    Ted, I don't put music on my iPhone or even iPod Touch.


    Takes up too much room. I use my iPod Touch at work

    for Sirius Radio. The app connects to the office WiFi and

    I have it connected to speakers so I can enjoy music all day.


    My music device is my Classic 160GB iPod which I hope

    one day they expand. Even with 6000 songs mostly in
    lossless, I still have quite a bit of room left for more.
     
  17. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Administrator
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    Hey help me figure this out from the MobileMe FAQ (Thank You, Ted)






    Uhm....why would I need MobileMe through June 30 2012

    if iCloud does the same thing for free?


    Does this make sense?
     
  18. Craig S

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    There's no need for a Family Pack anymore, at least for the App Store version. Lion will be like everything else you buy from the App Store - purchase it once, and install on all of your Macs. This was specifically pointed out in the keynote. I just don't want to have to do the 4 GB download 3 times, like I do currently if I want to put an App Store purchase on all three of my machines.
     
  19. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Administrator
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    Oh, damn. Good point, Craig.


    Well, that's good news for being able to use the OS X on multiple devices tied to your iCloud account.
     
  20. Craig S

    Craig S Premium
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    I'm guessing they're keeping the old service up for an extra year to accomodate those customers who don't immediately upgrade to iOS5 and/or Lion. Also, it gives people who have the older hardware that doesn't support the new OSs a year to raise the funds and upgrade.
     

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